Jonathan Thomas (00:21)
Welcome back to the Anglotopia podcast. The podcast are people who love British travel, history, and culture. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today we're talking about one of Britain's greatest cultural exports of all time, the Beatles. My guest today is Dan Absher, a lifelong Beatles fan whose obsession began on February 9th, 1964 at the age of five, when he watched the Beatles perform on the Ed Sullivan show. Since then,

Dan has built a remarkable career as a CEO leading a large construction company for over three decades and has spent years studying how the Beatles have achieved their extraordinary success. Dan has now distilled those insights into a fascinating new book, The Fab Four Pillars of Impact Building Dynamic Teams the Beatles' Way, coming out in February, 2026 from Greenleaf Book Group Press. It's part Beatles history, part leadership manual,

and completely captivating for anyone who's ever wondered how the four lads from Liverpool changed the world. Dan's connection to Britain goes beyond just Beatles fandom. He attended Stanford's study abroad program at Cliveden the historic Astor estate near Badenhead where scenes from the film Help were filmed. He's made multiple pilgrimage to Liverpool with his family and on one memorable trip, he and his family spent the evening with Freda Kelly, the legendary head of the Beatles fan club who worked for Brian Epstein.

and the Beatles from 1962 to 1972. Welcome to the podcast, Dan.

Dan Absher (01:49)
Thank you, Jonathan. Great to be here.

Jonathan Thomas (01:52)
Great to have you on the show.

So Dan, let's start at the beginning. You were five years old on February 9th, 1964, watching the Ed Sullivan show with your family. What do you remember about that night and how did it change your life?

Dan Absher (02:05)
⁓ great way to start. ⁓ Well, to put it in context, think what it was important. A couple of things. My parents allowed us to watch it, which was really cool. And I have two older sisters and an older brother. So I think at five, I was as impacted by their reaction as I was by the TV show. ⁓ My sisters ⁓ just were giddy watching them perform.

And I was ⁓ thinking, wow, this is special. And then just watching their charisma, the screaming, just the whole thing was remarkable. And honestly, it wasn't until much later that I started to realize how great of musicians they were too. right then it was their charisma, their personalities, their humor, all of that that created an impact and a lasting impression.

Jonathan Thomas (03:02)
So you mentioned in your book that your older brother Tom and cousin Mike immediately became John and Paul while you embraced the role of Ringo. Sorry, George, there were only three of you. What was it about Ringo that appealed to five-year-old Dan?

Dan Absher (03:16)
Well, again, Mike, my cousin Mike, who's passed away recently. ⁓ Rest in peace, Mike and my brother Tom are older than I am. So they had pick of the litter. They picked John and Paul. And I think I might have been coerced into picking Ringo because they needed a drummer and not another guitar player. But I fully embraced the Ringo role. He the steady, you know, guy that kept him going and.

Jonathan Thomas (03:38)
Ha

Dan Absher (03:45)
It's sort of the shucks personality. I love Ringo from the very start.

Jonathan Thomas (03:51)
Well, and you mentioned in our talk beforehand that your dog's name is Ringo. I love it.

Dan Absher (03:55)
Yes, and that's

how much I love Ringo, that we have a dog named Ringo.

Jonathan Thomas (04:00)
I love your Beatles shirt.

Dan Absher (04:02)
Thank you, yes, I'm outfitted in my best Beatles shirt.

Jonathan Thomas (04:07)
Or where did you get it from? Because we're going to have to put a link in the show notes. I'm sure somebody's going to want to buy that.

Dan Absher (04:11)
⁓

I have had this for a long time. I don't know where I got it. It might've been a gift from someone. So I'm not sure I was behind buying it.

Jonathan Thomas (04:15)
Ha.

So your nickname Abbey Road came from your high school days. How did your Beatles obsession manifest during your teenage years and beyond?

Dan Absher (04:32)
Well, ⁓ the nickname, first my nickname was Abby, my last name's Absher, so it evolved to Abby. My dad's nickname was Abby, my brother's nickname was Abby. For a while he was Big Abby, I was Little Abby while we were in high school together. And ⁓ then when he left, some guys started calling me Abby Road, largely because of my Beatles obsession.

And so it just sort of came together. You know, when a team was listening to music, I would put on a Beatles song or, you know, just about every possible opportunity to put on the Beatles or tell a Beatles story, I was taking advantage of.

Jonathan Thomas (05:21)
Nice, it sounds very similar to me as a teenager becoming an Anglophile, just getting immersed in it all. So, in your family, turning 64 is ⁓ apparently a milestone birthday because of the song When I'm 64. What other ways has The Beatles music become woven into your family traditions?

Dan Absher (05:28)
Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know how many people watch on YouTube, if you, John, if at least you can see behind me a painting of that was a 64th birthday present from ⁓ my some of my best friends. It's a painting they commissioned a great artist to do for us. And it's me on the cover of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band with the other four Beatles. ⁓

So, 64 is a big deal. ⁓ We have special celebrations when we turn 64. Other things, know, dances, weddings, ⁓ know, weddings, ⁓ several of our kids, we have six kids, several of our kids either had a Beatles song, well, all of them had Beatles songs at their reception. Several had them as part of their wedding.

So it's been handed down. I of course use them a lot. Every occasion I can think of, particularly use in my life, the Beatles song, that ⁓ gets played a lot at family outings.

Jonathan Thomas (07:01)
is that Ringo in the painting? Like the dog?

Dan Absher (07:03)
⁓ Actually, that is Simba. That was our dog before Ringo. So ⁓ Ringo's only two.

Jonathan Thomas (07:11)
So you attended Stanford's Study Abroad program at Cliveden, the historic Astor estate, ⁓ where scenes from the Beatles film, How It Were Filmed, what was that experience like as a Beatles fan? Were you just in heaven?

Dan Absher (07:27)
Well, here's an interesting twist on that question. I didn't realize it at the time. Had a great time there and ⁓ it's a remarkable thing looking back. Cliveden is now a five-star hotel. But at the time, for a period of time, it was the study abroad location for Stanford in England. We had 45

young adults between the ages of 19 and 21 or so hanging out in this estate for a semester. It was an incredible experience. But I didn't realize it was in the movie Help until a few years later, I'm rewatching the movie Help and I notice, wow, that looks like Cliveden. And so then I did the research and realized that they had filmed part of the movie there.

Jonathan Thomas (08:17)
haha

I would love to ⁓ attend a course at a stately home. That sounds nice.

Dan Absher (08:30)
Yes, there's a really

cool picture of Paul McCartney. ⁓ I think he spent a birthday, his birthday there a few years ago at Cliveden, and there's a great picture of him at Cliveden. And it was pretty cool. I recreated that same picture when I was over there a couple of years ago.

Jonathan Thomas (08:52)
Yeah, Clibdon has been host to many famous parties and scandals over the years. It's an interesting place. It's a weird, it's a National Trust property, but it's also a five-star hotel, which is a weird.

Dan Absher (08:57)
Yes, the Profumo affair.

Yeah, we're not we're not sure how they pulled that off, but they did.

Jonathan Thomas (09:16)
So tell us about your trips to Liverpool and with your family. What's it like walking the streets where John Paul, George, and Ringo grew up?

Dan Absher (09:25)
Um, the first time I visited Liverpool was in 1983. And at the time I, I, I loved it, but it was a lot more of a industrial seaport town. Um, not other than the Beatles, not a great place to visit. Uh, we took the kids back there. I think in 2019 and I was thrilled how.

much Liverpool had improved just as a nice place to visit ⁓ outside the Beatles.

Jonathan Thomas (10:00)
Yeah, there's been a lot of investment

in Liverpool.

Dan Absher (10:04)
Yeah, so we've really, really enjoyed that. And it's, you know, I'm thrilled for Liverpool because you probably know this, but Liverpool was one of the last major cities that Britain put a lot of money into to reconstruct after World War Two. So that the Beatles grew up in that environment where it was a bombed out shell and, you know, not not the greatest place to to grow up. But

⁓ They are now, it now looks like a fabulous place to visit and spend time.

Jonathan Thomas (10:41)
Well, and there's a whole Beatles economy now. I mean, there's multiple Beatles attractions. mean, doing Beatles tours employs hundreds of people. Even the National Trust has taken on their trials at homes. You could spend a week there and not see all the Beatles related stuff.

Dan Absher (10:44)
yeah.

Yeah, and we

visited most of those and I was thrilled that my kids were also into it. Probably didn't have much chance. Perhaps it was brainwashing, but they really enjoyed it too. Yeah, it was a great visit.

Jonathan Thomas (11:20)
So you mentioned that you spent an evening with Freda Kelly, the head of the Beatles fan club ⁓ back in their heyday. She's been described as being in the thick of Beatlemania. What was that like and what did you learn from her?

Dan Absher (11:35)
Um, first of all, props to Jackie Spencer, who is a, uh, uh, tour Beatles tour guide, extraordinaire, perhaps the most well known in the area. And she, uh, offered to set something up like that. And she, uh, offered to reach out to Frieda Kelly, who occasionally will agree to meet with people for an evening. And it was fantastic. She, what a really nice, sweet person.

⁓ We were able to ask questions about, was George like and what was John like? ⁓ you know, just to hear from someone who firsthand experienced that and who was in the thick of it. mean, she would she was the person in charge of their fan mail. And so she would sort out the fan mail between the four of them, take them to their homes. ⁓ You know, so she was in constant contact with not just

the lads, but their families. So she got to know really the whole thing. so I asked just general observations of each of them. ⁓ she said, Paul was always cordial, always professional, always nice. But she said, I never felt like I really got to know him. ⁓ John was the most infuriating and most lovely person all at the same time.

She could be upset with him, but then he would ⁓ be the most gracious person she's ever seen. ⁓ If he wronged her, he'd bring her flowers and get on his knees and say, Frida, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. ⁓ Ringo, she said, was just ⁓ super friendly, always polite. And George, and ⁓ I don't know this to be true because she does not say that. She doesn't even say this in her book.

There was just a special little sparkle in her eye when she talked about George. So I suspect she might have had a little extra feeling for George than the other three.

Jonathan Thomas (13:44)
Well, I have to ask because I've asked other guests on how to prove specialize in the Beatles. Have you met any of the Beatles?

Dan Absher (13:52)
⁓ I have not met any of the beetles. So Frida is the closest I've come.

Jonathan Thomas (13:59)
So have you visited Abbey Road and what was it like to do the famous zebra crossing as the British called them?

Dan Absher (14:06)
Yeah, I've been to Abbey Road a few times. When I was at school, I went there a few times. And then we took our kids there when they were young. There's a great picture of us at the crossing ⁓ with my wife and me and the six kids crossing the crosswalk. And we had them wear matching shirts, which they won't.

Jonathan Thomas (14:36)
You

Dan Absher (14:36)
They still haven't let us live that down, but we were quite the spectacle, family of six kids crossing the Abbey Road, zebra crossing ⁓ together. We made a spectacle of ourselves.

Jonathan Thomas (14:49)
I believe you sent me that picture, so I'll cut it in so people can see it. ⁓ Yeah, I've not been to the Abbey Road crossing yet. ⁓ All I've heard is that it's a very busy traffic intersection, so people get really annoyed when you pause traffic to take your picture. ⁓ So, okay, well, let's move on to your book, which is why we're having this interview. Here's the book again. ⁓ What made you decide to write the Fab Four Pillars of Impact?

Dan Absher (14:52)
I did, yes.

It is, yes.

Jonathan Thomas (15:17)
When did you realize that the Beatles' story had lessons for business and leadership?

Dan Absher (15:22)
Hi.

I obviously, my lifetime, I've used the Beatles as examples in both business and coaching. I've coached some basketball teams and I use their examples. So it's always been in my mind, but not necessarily to write a book. I've actually had a few other books running around in my mind. And, ⁓ and as I started speaking to people about the Beatles and using them, they kept, it kept gravitating back toward.

business applications. during COVID, ⁓ three good friends of mine asked if we could get together occasionally for a distance learning. So socially distant, I gave them the Beatles history. And it took a lot of fun work, but I wrote out this whole three night program where we just went over the history of the Beatles.

And they were great. they, that motivated me to start thinking about doing some kind of book about the Beatles. And as I started doing research and I realized one, I'd read Malcolm Gladwell's book called Outliers. He uses the Beatles. ⁓ I see references to the Beatles from other business leaders and really the clincher was ⁓ revisiting Steve Jobs' 60 Minutes interview.

in 2003, where he said his model for business is the Beatles. And I thought, well, I've personally probably read 50 to 100 Beatles books. There are several hundred books about the Beatles. I don't recall anyone writing a book to apply to business as a leadership and team building book to not look at what they did, but how they did it from a business standpoint. So I started working on it.

did a few presentations with business groups that were well received that helped me fine tune it. So about a year ago, I said, you know, I'm going to write this. Unfortunately, because I've done presentations, I could rely on them. That is the framework. And then from about January to the end of May in 25, I put my nose to the grindstone and got the book done.

Jonathan Thomas (17:51)
Nice. And so in your book, ⁓ you identify four pillars that supported the Beatles' success. The right people, right seats, catalytic vision, spirit decor, and the magical mystery of synergy and serendipity. Can you kind of walk us through those without giving away the whole book?

Dan Absher (18:12)
Yeah,

no problem. ⁓ Well, I I tried to put the pillars in order of importance, and I struggled with the first two right people, right seats and catalytic vision and right people, right seats. Obviously, you need the right people and you got to get them in the right roles and catalytic vision. ⁓ Jim Collins in his books,

It definitely says the people are primary. I think in the Beatles case, it was a chicken or the egg because John had this vision at a really early age. had John not had this vision, I'm not sure Paul would have been so excited to jump on board. And at the same time, had John not been able to track Paul, they wouldn't have gotten to where they were.

And then from Paul came George, and then a few years later came Ringo. So they got the right people, and early on they had clearly defined roles. That's the other part of the people equation. The catalytic vision, John said, we're going to be bigger than Elvis, and he said that early on, and that motivated them. Esprit de corps is just their camaraderie, their humor.

You know, just the way they approach things. People who think they didn't work hard or they were over overnight sensation or they were lazy. You hear a lot of people talking about how lazy John Lennon was. And even he talked about himself being lazy. They worked so hard for so many years before they became famous. I mean, I'm imagining my parents. If I told them when I was 17, I'm going to go be a rock star.

And five years later, I still hadn't made it, but I'm still saying I'm going to do it. I don't think that would have lasted, but they were working on it for five years before they got their record contract. So that vision was catalytic and it kept them going. then, and that sense of humor in those days where it was hard work was critical. And then finally, there's this mystery about the Beatles that I've also seen in other businesses and sports teams. ⁓

They just, there's, they connect in a way that makes them better than they are. ⁓ Not to be too, ⁓ too boastful of my hometown team, but I'm, I'm in Seattle and the Seattle Seahawks this year have that synergy. They, they don't have a single first team, all pro on their defense, but it's the best defense in the NFL. ⁓ They've got that synergy. And then the serendipity is the just lucky accidents that

where other people would see an event and call it an obstacle, they would see it as a, ⁓ hey, how do we turn that into something positive? And why aren't we lucky that, ⁓ for instance, John leaned his guitar up against an amp when it wasn't turned down and it created all this feedback. And it ends up being the opening note on their song, I Feel Fine. They don't look at a mistake and say,

That was tragic. They look at it and say, what can we do with it?

Jonathan Thomas (21:35)
Interesting. Now, ⁓ the right seats, the right people, right seats pillar is fascinating. John made the decision to bring Paul into the band, even though Paul might overshadow him. How often do leaders fail by not bringing in people more talented than themselves?

Dan Absher (21:52)
Well, it's perhaps the most common fault of leaders. ⁓ You I mean, you kind of get it, the human nature of what you started. You want to be the smartest guy in the room or the best guy at something. But and ⁓ I'd like to say John saw Paul and immediately asked him in. John struggled with it because he saw how talented Paul was. It took him. ⁓

historians debate it, somewhere between a few weeks and a few months before he actually made the call that, yeah, I got to put the group first, even if Paul might emerge as a better musician than me. And so he did. So, I mean, that set the foundation for the Beatles. It's okay ⁓ for someone to be better. And they all talked about this, that, you know, they had a very strict

a code of, ⁓ you know, the best song, the best lick, the best drum part, whatever, that's what goes on the record. And they stayed true to that for the most part. And when they started to fall apart, and we'll address that later, those things started to fracture.

Jonathan Thomas (23:07)
So you, one of your pillars, you described that their overall vision is catalytic, not just compelling, but transformative. Their mantra was, to the topper most of the popper most. How did this vision drive them through those grueling early years, like in Hamburg, when they were not famous yet?

Dan Absher (23:25)
Well, yeah, I was trying to find the right adjective for that vision. And I think catalytic is it that it was the catalyst that drove them. They ⁓ in in Hamburg or Liverpool when they were just young, struggling artists and and, you know, in Hamburg, they shared one room, the four of them in an old ⁓ warehouse. mean, it didn't have, you know, it wasn't the best place to

to live, they shared the four of them shared that. wasn't Ringo at the time, it was Pete Bass, but they shared that and they needed some motivation because ⁓ it didn't always look like they were gonna make it to the top. So John started this little chant where he'd say to the others, where are we gonna go boys? And they would say, to the top, Johnny. And John would say, and where's the top?

And then they would chant back to the topper most of the popper most. So it was there, you know, I hate to use Walmart as an example, but Walmart has their little chair to get people pumped up. They had a little chair to get them pumped up when things weren't looking good. And it was more than just a slogan. They truly believed they were on their path to becoming the top of the music industry.

Jonathan Thomas (24:48)
⁓ In the next pillar, esprit de corps seems to capture something special about the Beatles. The chocolate bar story about John sharing half of Paul is quite touching. How important was this sense of unity to their success?

Dan Absher (25:03)
⁓ Well, early on, it's what drove them. Let me relay a little of that chocolate bar story that I retell in the book. Paul tells this story ⁓ visiting John, I think they might have been 18 and 16 in that age range, but he went to visit at John's Aunt Mimi's house in Liverpool to write songs and to play and sing.

Now think about this when you're 18 and the mate 16, that's a big age gap at that time. John, Paul remembers going over one time, John had a chocolate bar and he broke it in half, concerned that he made it exactly half to give to Paul. Whereas a lot of 18 year old Teddy boys or bullies or whatever, John liked this tough guy image.

Might've given him a square, but he gave him exactly half. Another interesting thing about this story that ⁓ Paul tells is he went over there and John was on his typewriter. And he said, heck, don't think many boys in Liverpool even knew what a typewriter was, but John actually was already writing poetry and things, songs. had a typewriter when he was a teenager. It shows that he had this ⁓ academic studious

artistic bent at an early age. ⁓

The other is ⁓ looking back on her career, Ringo once said, he always felt sorry for Elvis because as part of the Beatles, he had three other guys who knew what they were going through and Elvis didn't have that. so sharing that, ⁓ their success was important, not just for it helped build their success, but I think it was good for their.

emotional stability and the isolation that Elvis must have felt. They knew there were other people that were going through it. ⁓ You know, as they struggled through their breakup, it was hard because they were so close. It was hard to tear that those those bonds apart. But at least they had they got to share that, you know, they also several times and say, hey, we'd go to a city. The only thing we'd ever see is a hotel room.

and the inside of a limo. But in the hotel room was always the other three guys. they literally lived together for almost four or five straight years.

Jonathan Thomas (27:42)
It's so interesting. ⁓ So your fourth pillar, magical mystery of synergy and serendipity seems almost ineffable. How do you explain that alchemy that made the whole greater than the sum of its parts with the Beatles?

Dan Absher (27:57)
Yeah, it is hard to, both hard to describe and hard to imagine how so many ⁓ crazy things happen for them. I think that to me, the synergy is easier to believe because you see teams, see businesses, you see other bands who, you know, they feed off each other and it becomes greater than the sum of its parts.

There's no question that was true of the Beatles. But it's easier to find examples of that. The serendipity, the lucky accidents that occurred for them ⁓ just over and over again. think part of it is what I said earlier. They were looking for it. They were always trying to you know, serendipity in things. But, you know, one story I like that

That's just remarkable. ⁓ In the song, She's Leaving Home, Paul writes about a girl who ran away from home, and he found that story in the newspaper. ⁓ Unbelievably, they found out several years later, they didn't know this at the time, ⁓ that same girl was on a

TV show kind of like ⁓ Britain's Got Talent or America's Got Talent, ⁓ a contest show, but it was a dance show. Paul was the guest judge and this girl was among the three finalists. Paul picked that girl as the winner and then a couple years later she runs away from home. Paul sees it in the paper and writes she's leaving home about it.

completely unaware that it's that same girl. And it's several years later that they discover that connection. Another remarkable piece of serendipity, the song Eleanor Rigby, you may have heard this, I got to go see this. Paul has always said Eleanor Rigby is a made up name. He liked the actress Eleanor Clift who was in Help.

He liked the name Rigby, so he put them together, made the song about Eleanor Rigby. If you go to the ⁓ place where John and Paul met, the St. Peter's, where they met at that, the festival, and you go to the graveyard, there's a tombstone with the name Eleanor Rigby on it. Paul swears he never knew that was there.

Later in life he said, well maybe subconsciously I saw it, but you know just the odd, I mean that's not the most common name, just the oddity that he could write a song ⁓ and there's a tombstone with that name on it just a few steps away from where John and Paul first met. It's miraculous.

Jonathan Thomas (31:05)
Ineffable, that's a good word for that.

Dan Absher (31:08)
Yes.

Jonathan Thomas (31:08)
So let's get into the into the dark years here. You argue in your book that understanding the songs all you need is love and while my guitar gently weeps are keys to understanding what broke the Beatles up. Can you explain your theory for Anglotopia listeners?

Dan Absher (31:25)
Yeah.

Yes. First, the story behind All You Need Is Love. not only I think it explains also why they were so great and why they broke up. If I had to pick two songs to give you the Beatles story, it would be those two. If I had to pick a third, I'd probably have to pick one of the early songs that, you know, in their early days. But there was a program called

one world satellite broadcast or our world. And it was going to be the first satellite broadcast the world has ever seen. Ended up being estimates at least 400 million people watching it across the world. Some estimates go as high as 700 million people watching this satellite show. a lot of countries are invited to participate. Some examples like from Austria, the

Vienna Philharmonic with the Vienna Boys Choir kicked off the show. ⁓ From France they had a ballet troupe do a ballet dance. ⁓ You know, so it wasn't, people weren't thinking rock and roll. Well, Britain asked the Beatles to do that. Well, they asked George, or they asked Brian Epstein to have the Beatles do that. And he said, yes. Well, this is right after they had just released

Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band. So you think of all those songs they've just written, Brian comes in and tells them, hey, we're gonna be on this broadcast, we gotta do it, there's gonna be all these people. So they have to go write a song. So John and Paul, ⁓ that little friendly internal competition they had, go to work to try to write a song for this broadcast. And John comes up with All You Need Is Love. You think about it, they know they're gonna be broadcast worldwide.

And the message John decides to share is all you need is love. So that tells you a lot about why they were successful. One, the fact that they could create something that remarkable that quickly. That little competition between John and Paul over who got the song drove them to that. and, you know, putting the others first, Paul seeing the song and saying, OK, yeah, John, that's it. Paul had no problem giving the

letting that be the song. So they record that with that message on this satellite program. All these people see it. Well, not too much later, ⁓ George writes, ⁓ While My Guitar Gently Weeps for the white album. George once said in an interview, While My Guitar Gently Weeps is All You Need Is Love, Part Two. And when you listen carefully to While My Guitar Gently Weeps,

What George is saying is to John and Paul, you guys are talking about universal love, love everybody. All you need is love. Love is all you need, but you're not loving me, the people closest to you. You're forgetting us. ⁓ My guitar is in the corner gently weeping and you're not even paying attention to it. ⁓ So I look, you he's saying I look at you and I wonder where that love is gone.

So they're not applying it to those closest to them. So it's a fascinating ⁓ little look inside the Beatles that George totally embraced the message of universal love, but he also was starting to get ⁓ a little resentful that they weren't applying that same message inside the band. George was becoming a better songwriter. George was becoming more ⁓ creative and they... ⁓

John and Paul sort of kept him down. don't think it was intentional. They were locked into roles that led to their success. So they saw, well, this is our roles. George is, you know, wanting to get out, break free from that. And John and Paul were really keeping him down. ⁓ You know, not to excuse it, but you think about it if you have when you're when you

develop roles when you're younger in your teens, especially boys maybe, you kind of always look at your little brother or your kid brother as your kid brother for the rest of your life. And sometimes you don't let them become the adult. And I think that was happening.

Jonathan Thomas (36:01)
And so that kind of leads into my next question. So what is your verdict on what broke up the Beatles?

Dan Absher (36:09)
Yeah, well, the idea that Yoko broke up the Beatles is, I'll dispel that, I think that's ridiculous. If it hadn't been Yoko, John would have found either another woman or another excuse to help him break up the Beatles. So I say in the book that if you had to place blame on who broke up the Beatles, I would say it was John, Paul, George and Ringo.

And I would put it in that order. ⁓ not really to blame John. No one said that the Beatles had to stay together forever. He just had had enough. It was exhausting and he wanted a new life. And the reason I also place a little more blame on him, Paul wanted the Beatles to stay together and he worked hard to get them to stay together and it didn't work.

You know, if John had really wanted the Beatles to stay together, I think it could have happened. So you got to put the blame most there and not in any sinister way. He was just ready for a break and a new life. And then George, think his contribution was, ⁓ you know, he was starting to get resentful and it was showing in their relationships and Ringo. ⁓

I think he had an opportunity to piece things together, be the peacemaker. And he just said, you know, they're the leaders, I'll stay out. Well, he could have been more active. Paul, God bless Paul, most remarkable musician of our age. But I think sometimes he's a little tone deaf on how he comes across. And I think he was trying so hard to keep them together.

and push them to do that next thing. And the guys really needed a break. And Paul was afraid that break would mean they would never get back together. And he kept pushing to do more and more. you know, back then they didn't have the models you have now where a group could take a break, do a solo album, you know, get together in two years and you have the band back together. That model didn't exist then. So they weren't thinking in those terms. ⁓ So they

They had a feeling like if they break up, it's forever. ⁓ And so Paul was clinging so hard to try to keep them together. I think that clinging itself had a way of pushing them further.

Jonathan Thomas (38:45)
Well, ⁓ and forgive me, this question isn't on the list, but you might be able to answer it. ⁓ When they broke up, that was the end of the Beatles as the band, but that wasn't necessarily the end of the Beatles as a corporate entity. How did they continue to work together after the band broke up? Because you've got music licensing, merchandise licensing. They're essentially shareholders in a company. How does that dynamic still work when you're no longer

working together as artists.

Dan Absher (39:16)
Yeah, we would need a whole episode on that, but I'll give you a short version. The answer is they did not work well together for quite a while. Many lawsuits among and between each other. know, for the most part, it was three against one, Paul against the other three. ⁓ You know, I say in the book. ⁓

The big fight was over who was going to manage the Beatles. Alan Klein or Paul's in-laws. you know, they were all wrong. mean, was, you know, they were all looking at the other side, pointing out how wrong that side was. Well, they were all wrong and they needed to get a consensus. mean, you know, Paul had was right to have reservations about Alan Klein.

But the fact that he couldn't see how inappropriate it would be to have his in-laws manage all the Beatles. I mean, it's such a conflict. There's no way that could work. So, I mean, that was really the big early one. But then, you know, through many lawsuits and many reconciliations, ⁓ Apple Corps pieced themselves together. ⁓

They, I would say really when John, for the most part, they had reconciled before John was killed. But after that, ⁓ you know, they were pretty much in sync on how they would run the Beatles business. They had a nice arrangement. Each of the four of them had a vote and each of the four of them had veto power of anything they wanted to do. So. ⁓

You know, so Yoko carries forward, Olivia Harrison carries forward and is the vote ⁓ for Beatles decisions. ⁓ You know, more and more, is overseeing John's share and Danny is overseeing George's share. But, ⁓ you know, they've carved out a miraculous business, Post Beetles.

Jonathan Thomas (41:39)
Yeah, the value of the IP is just, I mean, mind boggling. They don't even own the catalog anymore, but it was just famous. I don't know who owns the catalog now. Because Michael Jackson, he...

Dan Absher (41:44)
Yeah.

⁓ Yeah.

Michael Jackson's estate. Yeah. Yeah. There are lots of stories behind that one, too.

Jonathan Thomas (41:57)
They still, so they still have it, wow.

Yeah, we won't get that's getting into the weeds. ⁓ So as we as we get near to wrapping this up, what what can the Beatles is rise and fall teach modern businesses about building and sustaining excellence? I mean, I most people don't realize this, but you know, Anglotopia is a business. I'm a business owner, so I'm kind of a nerd for this kind of thing. So I'm interested to know. I'm always looking for ways to improve the business that is Anglotopia So what?

Dan Absher (42:05)
Hahaha.

Jonathan Thomas (42:30)
What can the Beatles teach us about that?

Dan Absher (42:34)
Yeah, well, there are several things I'm going ⁓ to boil it down to what I think is the most important one. And that is an organization has to be willing to recalibrate its vision. So the Beatles had a clear vision, you know, to be top or most of the pop or most. Well, they never stopped to think, well, what happens when we get there? Well, they got there and they didn't have a strategic planning session. I mean, they

That's what a business, that's what I recommend a business do. It sounds absurd to think of the four of them having a strategic planning retreat, but that's what they needed. They wouldn't have called it that, but they needed to get together, communicate and talk about, all right, we've done it. Where do we go from here? And just dump it all out on the table and see if there's a way to hold it together with a different vision. ⁓ Their visions, it's...

You know, as they, when they made it to the top, John's vision was to save the world, know, be a world leader and teach people how to, you know, live a world in peace. And George's was really to save his soul and be close to God. Paul really stayed pretty close to the original vision. He wanted to remain, you know.

relevant in music his whole life. And of course he's done that. And B, the top band in the world for a whole lifetime. And Ringo, I think Ringo, his vision was, have fun with my buddies. Hopefully it's with the Beatles, if it's not with the Beatles, I wanna hang out with people who wanna enjoy themselves and create music. ⁓ so those visions were vastly different and they conflicted too.

John leading peace marches and things ⁓ didn't align with Paul's vision of what he thought the Beatles should be doing. So you could see how it fractured. They didn't try to figure out a way around it. They ⁓ were breaking down all sorts of barriers in the music industry. They could have started the model where, hey guys, we're going to all do a solo album and let's take a break.

and let's have another meeting in two years and talk about whether we want to do another Beatles album. But they didn't even, they were so frustrated with each other, they couldn't get there.

Jonathan Thomas (45:12)
So you rank Strawberry Fields Forever as your favorite Beatles song. What is it about that one that puts it at the top for you?

Dan Absher (45:20)
the raw honesty, first of all, the remarkable ⁓ lyrics and sound of that song for a rock star who, you know, just a couple of years previously was doing She Loves You and I Want to Hold Your Hand. ⁓ know, John says, no one I think is in my tree. I mean, it must be high or low. So he's talking about he feels different and isolated, maybe special.

There's an early version of that song where ⁓ he wrote the lyric as, no one is on my wavelength. So that's what he's really talking about. He's not sure where he fits. And I think that raw honesty, that insecurity that he brings to it, ⁓ but also wanting to make something of it and wanting to help other people through that song is what speaks to me.

It's, you know, like I say in the book, it changes. There are many times, A Day in the Life is my favorite song. Just the, such groundbreaking music. I'd say not as meaningful a lyrics as Strawberry Fields, just I like that, especially because it's blending Paul and John's genius perfectly to get them both contributing at their highest level on one song.

⁓ is something special.

Jonathan Thomas (46:48)
So skipping ahead on my questions, for my last question, you had a life-changing experience in 2020. You literally died on the operating table during back surgery before being revived and having emergency heart surgery. How did that experience influence this book in your perspective on what matters?

Dan Absher (47:09)
Yeah. ⁓ it influenced it greatly. It caused me to want to, ⁓ get my succession figured out for my company. It motivated me to start this lifelong dream of, of writing that I've, I've put aside for, raise children and run a business and coach basketball. And, you know, it always took a backseat and I saw, Hey, this is an opportunity to get into writing, which is.

I've wanted to do my whole life. So ⁓ yeah, it meant everything. It made me realize life's short. ⁓ Most people back at the company, they got it handled. They can do it without me. And ⁓ they have, and they've done quite well.

Jonathan Thomas (47:59)
Well, congratulations on the book being published. By the time this episode comes out, the book will be out. ⁓ What a fascinating conversation. And thank you so much for joining us on the Angletopia podcast, It's wonderful to hear from someone who has spent a lifetime loving The Beatles and has now distilled those decades of fandom and business experience into such practical wisdom. For everyone listening, Dan's book, The Fab Four Pillars of Impact, Building Dynamic Teams The Beatles' Way.

It comes out in February, 2026 from Greenleaf Book Group Press. You can learn more about Dan and his work at fab4academy.com. That's fab4academy.com.

If you enjoyed this episode, please like, subscribe, or leave a comment wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you'd like early access to new episodes and help support independent long form writing about British history, culture, and travel, please consider joining the Friends of Angotopia Club. Whether you're a lifelong Beatles fan or just discovering their music, remember, all you need is love. Thank you again, Dan, and thank you for listening.

Dan Absher (49:03)
Thank you, Jonathan, and good luck on your Hadrian Wall Walk.

Jonathan Thomas (49:07)
Thank you.