Jonathan Thomas (00:13)
Welcome back to the Angotopia podcast. The podcast for people who love British travel, history, and culture. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today is an Angotopia podcast first. Our guest today is a real life lady with a capital L. With us today is Lady Violet Manners, technically now Vicountess Garnock but she still uses Lady Violet Manners as her work name. Lady Violet is the daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Rutland and grew up in Belvoir Castle.

Her life growing up in a castle inspired her to start a new digital platform for exploring Britain's heritage with HeritageXplore an online platform that opens up exploration for some of Britain's privately owned stately homes. We're going to have a chat today about what it was like growing up in a castle and what it's like to go from aristocrat to tech entrepreneur. So welcome Lady Violet.

Violet (01:03)
Thank you, Jonathan, so much for such a lovely introduction and having me on your brilliant podcast.

Jonathan Thomas (01:08)
We are very excited to have you here. So, so first question I've got to ask is going to be the most American question I'll probably ask is what's it like growing up in a real castle?

Violet (01:16)
Thank

⁓ I'm so glad you do ask that question because I rarely get asked it over here, which I also don't mind. But when I do get asked it, I enjoy answering the question. I mean, as you can probably imagine, it's a pretty surreal experience. And obviously, we're all a product of our experiences. And none of us choose the sort of gene pool that we swim in and then land in. So obviously, you know, it wasn't a natural. I didn't sort of select where I was going to be born and land, nor did any of us.

As a result, feel incredibly fortunate to have landed in such an incredible place with such an amazing array of historical accolades, fascinating family members who have fundamentally shaped the course of British history in many ways and have this incredibly beautiful place to call home.

So it was a pretty surreal experience. We definitely were very blessed with amazing parents who ensured that our feet firmly stayed on the ground despite growing up in a whopping sort of 18th century castle. But equally, got to enjoy it and still do to this day as a family and with our family and friends, which again is just an entirely unique experience.

But, you know, nevertheless, I think the one thing that everyone perhaps is often curious about is what is it like to grow up in a house? And whilst it has all the upside of the beauty, the heritage, the architecture, the art, the surroundings, the nature, the landscape that surrounds it, you know, there's a huge amount of work that has to go on to keep these places standing in the 21st century. And Belvoir's no different. And when my parents inherited Belvoir in 1999, it was termed to be a basket case by the trustees.

because it was just so in debt and in need of so much work and restoration. So it's been a massive and fascinating journey to watch my mum, who's the CEO of Belvoir, and my dad, who's a historian primarily, but heavily involved in the business as well. It's just been such a fascinating insight to really understand what it really means to run and be a part of heritage in the 21st century. And it's very different to what Julian Fellowes, the creator of Downton Abbey, would have us all believe.

⁓ Things have definitely changed since then, but you know, nevertheless, it's just, it's utterly magical and feel, as I said, just incredibly lucky and fortunate to be, you know, to be lucky enough to be born into this extraordinary family.

Jonathan Thomas (03:52)
Now, forgive me, this isn't one of the questions on the list, but in my research, reading up on your background, it said that you would lead tours when you were growing up. Tell us more about that, because that sounds like a lot of fun. What a weird teenage job, right?

Violet (03:54)
I'm happy to be involved.

Yeah, yeah, we did. Exactly.

This was kind of my first business, I would argue. And my mum, know, mum was always very keen that all of us, all of my siblings, I'm the oldest of four other siblings, two sisters below me and two brothers below me. And my mum, she, you know, she was born in Wales, brought up on a Welsh farm. So did not come from sort of an aristocratic background.

But she brought with her this kind of incredible sense of duty and work and you know, she's a big her big mantra in life is work hard play hard. So whilst you know, we were able to our friends over the weekends if we were at home in the summer at Belvoir when the castle was open and very busy to the public, we would always be tasked with creating either a little company or going and working in the ice cream shop or the cafe.

And my first, yeah, one of my first things that I used to do, I used to have a little electric car. is sort of age 12, maybe 14 when we first moved in, I was 12. Yeah, so probably about 13, 14. And I had this little electric car that I had had from when I was younger and I decided I'd start charging all the children of, you know, all the kind of adults that were going around the castle. I charged them a pound to take their children around for about 20 minutes, kind of around the north terrace, which is the sort of terrace that wraps around the castle.

And you know, the car was so slow, you know, I think a pound probably was quite punchy price, but nevertheless it was paid. And I made a pretty decent wedge at the age of 13 for memory anyway, at least enough to get me some good sweets. So I, yeah, that was my first job. And you know, we all kind of worked in the ice cream shop. My sister and I, Alice, ran the ice cream shop for a summer. And it was only sort of halfway into running it that we realized we were charging people incorrectly.

And we were charging for the cone and the ice cream separately. So our margins were, you know, two times what they should have been on ice creams. So we, yeah, we, you know, we kind of broke our teeth, I guess, in the business sense and kind of in the business world at home and summer holidays at Biva, which is kind of hilarious.

Jonathan Thomas (06:16)
So never know if you're buying ice cream at a stately home attraction, you might be getting it from a lady.

Violet (06:21)
Exactly.

was a lot of, funny enough, were quite a few, mostly Americans, interestingly, that would have often, they would have done the tour of the castle and in the castle at Belvoir, my mum's always ensured there are sort of family pictures everywhere in every room, sort of on the side. And they're always very up to date. And so it was funny, we'd be sort of serving ice creams to people through this little hatch window inside of the castle. And on occasion, you know, we'd have mostly American guests, but this aren't...

in my experience they were the most observant clearly and they would sort of say ⁓ my god are you you ⁓ are you lady violet or lady alice and then we sort of have this great conversation with them ⁓ age 12 and 13 ⁓ so no it did happen on occasion you're right

Jonathan Thomas (07:06)
Well, tell us a little bit about the history of Belvoir. What makes it such a fascinating place and kind of give us the elevator pitch for visiting this special place. I was reading it has 320-ish rooms.

Violet (07:20)
Yeah, exactly. mean, Belvoir is just, you know, a kind of crown jewel really of, you know, the county in which it sits and it actually sits across three separate counties and in the UK that's, you know, for those of your listeners that don't know, know, England's split up into sort of hundreds and hundreds of counties that, you know, vary in size. But so Belvoir sits sort of on the on the corner of all three. So Nottingham, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire.

Jonathan Thomas (07:31)
Wow.

Violet (07:49)
And Belvoir, you know, as a result, it sits on the top of the hill. Supposedly Walt Disney, I believe I'm right in saying, grew up in Lincolnshire. I was born in Lincolnshire, I think I'm right in saying, which is about half an hour away from Belvoir. You can actually see Belvoir from Lincoln on a clear day. And supposedly Walt Disney was mildly, mildly inspired by Belvoir and the way it kind of crowns the hill.

But Belvoir is, know, so for a start, you know, obviously it's spelled Bellevoire, meaning beautiful view in French. And Robert de Tordini, who was the sword bearer for William the Conqueror, is how my family kind of came into existence. So we originally came from France in 1066 and we came over with William the Conqueror. And Robert de Tordini, having been the sword bearer of William the Conqueror and quite literally saved his life on two separate occasions.

was subsequently sort of given the land on which Belvoir now sits. And fast forward, you know, six or seven, eight, no, hang on, nine generations, nine sort of centuries, you Belvoir is still in existence. And it famously was called Bellevoie because Dottorini was supposedly meant to have said, having sort of climbed to the top of the hill on which Belvoir still sits.

Jonathan Thomas (08:56)
Wow.

Violet (09:10)
He was meant to have got up there, this is prior to obviously building anything, said Bellevoire, meaning beautiful view. ⁓ And obviously, you know, kind of 13th, 14th century English, know, English British people could not pronounce Bellevoire, they weren't educated to be able to speak French. And so as a bit of a sort of...

a rally cry against a Toddini who had sort of come in and been given this land as a Frenchman. They chose not to ever sort of adhere to calling Belvoir by its correct sort of French name and instead decided to call it Belvoir. So that's sort of where the name originates from and the reason why, you know, it definitely doesn't, it's not said how it's spelled.

But Belvoir's just got a long litany of fascinating history. I mean, I think what's interesting about Belvoir is this particular castle that sits where it does now has done so since the sort of early 1800s. Prior to that, there were three other castles in its place in exactly the same setting. So the castle that we see today was in fact partially built out of the Charles II castle.

that Elizabeth the fifth Duchess of Rutland, who grew up at another incredible historic house called Castle Howard in Yorkshire, she famously arrived at the Charles II castle, Belvoir Castle, and declared to her husband, a very patient husband, you know, this is not romantic enough for me. If I am to live here, this will not be, this will not do. And so convinced her husband in a very short period of time to allow her to basically tear down the Charles II castle.

and rebuild this kind of extremely romantic, sort of Gothic Renaissance pile. And that's the castle that we see today. So as a family, we've always loved the fact that it was a woman that kind of spearheaded the building of this 18th century castle. That was so unheard of for a woman to be left with the reins quite literally on the budget. Needless to say, she nearly bankrupt the family on two occasions when building the current castle.

but she had a vision and she executed it with the help of James Wyatt. And James Wyatt is the same architect as Windsor Castle. So that's why, you know, they both have this quite famous sort of rotund feature to the castle, central feature to the castle. And, you know, that's also why Belvoir was used in the crown as the kind of replica for Windsor Castle because they have exactly the same design.

which I'm sure James Wyatt probably would have gone up to Belvoir and said, I've got this great idea to do this round tower as a sort of central feature, not, you know, the Duke and Duchess of Rutland of the day, not knowing that he had actually been pitching the same style of architecture down at Windsor. But there's just so many things that make Belvoir historically fascinating. know, Belvoir, as we see it today in World War I and II, that is where every single document from the House of Commons and the House of Lords was stored.

So, you know, historically it kind of quite literally saved and salvaged and became the kind of got, you know, the gatekeeper to the UK's collective heritage and history during, you know, that period of huge trauma for the country in World War I and II. It's had some fascinating sort of naval figures that spend a lot of time in the Caribbean. We never, thankfully, were involved in any of the slave trade. We certainly weren't sort of, you know, probably.

on it and as awful as that sounds, know it was, know, obviously lots of people profited largely out of that horrible trade. But we never kind of did that. But what we did do is a huge amount of exploring into sort of the Caribbean. And my father's actually written a book about Lord Robert, who pioneered all of those travels over there. I just don't really know where to stop. But there's, you know, there's a lot. mean, Queen Victoria obviously came, as she did with many historic houses in the UK, she came up to

Jonathan Thomas (13:02)
Hahaha

Violet (13:10)
Belvoir in the kind of 1840s, I want to say, but I should fact check myself on that. And it's, yeah, it's just got a kind of, yeah, 1840s. But it's just got this kind of wonderful, ⁓ you know, from an interior perspective, it's got this kind of incredible mismatch of Gothic, you know, architecture paired with this sort of beautiful.

and very romantic sort of Regency style. And I think that's what makes it such an extraordinary place to see with your own eyes and fundamentally stand in the spaces. Yeah, I'm gonna stop there, Jonathan, because I'll keep going otherwise.

Jonathan Thomas (13:49)
I certainly wouldn't mind but so it's more it's really more of a stately home than a castle castle

Violet (13:57)
No, it is a castle castle. mean, so previous to the Charles II house castle, was a moated, it was actually moated in the first instance. So beavers never had a battle at its, you know, at its kind of gates, so to speak. And I think anyone that tries to sort of, you know, even in this day and age, anyone that tries to kind of come and, you know, burgle beaver has a really tough job because the hill is so steep. You know, we can kind of see anyone coming from miles away.

Jonathan Thomas (14:02)
Right.

Violet (14:27)
⁓ So, you know, it is very much a castle, very much a castle as opposed to being a sort of house or stately kind of manner. And it gives you, you know, we've got six or seven, seven staterooms. So it definitely has that kind of grandeur. And obviously, you know, there's a whole kind of king and queen suite, which was created for Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth. so, yeah, we've, no, it's certainly a castle, that's for sure.

Jonathan Thomas (14:54)
No,

okay. These definitions are important to the British I have learned. So it's important to get it right. all right, moving on from the building. Now, do you have any interesting tidbits from the family history that are very interesting or scandalous or?

Violet (15:00)
This is true. This is true.

⁓ I do. think, know, Belvoir's been kind of, and my family has been definitely blessed with some huge sort of figures. you know, my dad, if he was being interviewed, would sort of speak more about all of the men that invariably, of course, have sort of shaped, you know, Belvoir's history and, you know, continue to do so. But I've always been most interested and most curious about the women that have come before me and my sisters and my mother.

And I think, you know, there's probably two duchesses that I mostly really kind of have always been fascinated in and the first being Elizabeth, who I mentioned, who designed and built the castle as we see it today. It took her 22 years to build the castle or thereabouts. And she was mired by this fire that took hold of the castle halfway through the build.

And so a significant proportion of all of their hard work was sadly lost, as was a significant number of really important Reynolds paintings and many, many more. So I think Elizabeth sort of fascinates me. She had nine children. She lost four, five survived. So she was definitely a...

a sort of fighter and a maverick in many, many ways, and had this wonderful and loving relationship with her husband, the Duke, who was often away. But we've, I've been lucky enough to read lots of the letters between them both, and they have this unbelievably kind of love-filled marriage and relationship, and one rooted completely in trust, to the point at which, as I mentioned, you know, she nearly bankrupted Belvoir twice, Belvoir as we see it today.

But I think that whole story of Elizabeth really speaks volumes about, I guess, a man as Jean that continues today. And I think that's one of grit and determination and a real sense of duty and custodianship that goes with it. So I think Elizabeth has always fascinated me. And then Violet, the Seventh Duchess of Rutland, who I'm named after.

She was a really fascinating figure. She, so many reasons, but I guess, you know, one of the slightly more well-documented ones is she famously prevented her eldest son, having lost her son, Haddon, aged nine, to what would now be sort of described as cot death or something similar. She then subsequently went on to essentially negotiate the...

Ransom is the wrong word, sort of prevent basically her eldest son being enrolled in World War One and two, at which, you know, no one knew of at the time, but you know, subsequently, there have been books have been written about how she managed to convince the Prime Minister of the day to not ask for her son to be enrolled, which is quite a controversial thing. And likewise, she was also an incredible artist. So she

her son Lord Haddon who sadly died, she spent nearly 30 years carving an effigy of his tomb ⁓ out in marble in a bedroom that still exists today. It wasn't a bedroom back then, but it is now and it's called the tapestry room. And yeah, she chiseled away at this incredibly moving effigy of her son Lord Haddon that now sits in the chapel at Belvoir, which is utterly beautiful. And she probably was one of the best

portrait, pencil portrait artist of her day and you know her drawings now sell for great fortunes because she, her portrait, her portraiture was largely of sort of societal aristocratic political artistic figures that we all know and discuss today still and they were her friends so she would spend time when having coffee with them sort of drawing them.

And as a result, it's some of the best sort of, you know, best documented kind of portraiture of her, really her generation. So she was an incredible artist and, you know, she spearheaded something called the Souls, which was a group of sort of politicians, aristocrats, artists that would gather together in London more often than not and discuss kind of topics of the day. I think it's fair to say there was a fair amount of affairs that happened in the Souls. And I think she also probably

got quite sort of involved in those as well. But she was, yeah, she was a kind of amazing, amazing woman. And it's widely documented to her youngest daughter, Diana Cooper, who went on to be one of the first British aristocrats to ever go over to New York and actually be on the West End. She, yeah, I think it's sort of well documented that that was not her husband's daughter. That was in fact her lover, Harry Cust.

who came from an estate down the road that was in fact his daughter. But the Duke of the day, her husband brought Diana up just as Diana was his own. So a pretty honorable man in that sense.

Jonathan Thomas (20:31)
Scandalous Well, well, well you've sold me I now need to come to Belvoir Castle because it's I have not been there and so I need to add that to the list so So ⁓ My next question is kind of a probably a weird question you haven't gotten that's probably a very American question is Well, how are you a lady and what does that mean like in practical everyday reality? Like do you get free fried upgrades?

Violet (20:32)
I know.

Good.

Yeah, definitely do.

Mm-mm.

⁓

I wish we got more. I think being so lady is a term for, you know, I'm the oldest daughter and all my siblings also have the same title. My sisters have the same title. And it's the yeah, it's the title given to the daughters of dukes and duchesses. So in the UK, it sort of goes, you know, royal family, the kings.

between princesses, princes, and then there is the dukes. And there's only 29, I think I'm right in saying 27 or 29 dukes in the United Kingdom. And so, you know, it's a small group. yeah, you know, it's a kind of very, again, like fortunate, rarefied space that we find ourselves in. But yes, the title is ⁓ an honorary title and...

why I have it is purely down to where I was born. And I think, again, with that comes a huge amount of responsibility, I think, to respect and honor the title that I've been given and the fact that fundamentally I've been born with it. And so it's important in my mind, at least, and this is something my mom's really ingrained in us, that we kind of fundamentally beyond the title.

It's about ensuring that you kind of earn your key. know, 100 years ago, being a lady meant a very different thing. And you undoubtedly would have done very little in the form of work. You undoubtedly had many more airs and graces. And undoubtedly would have been upgraded on a flight. And always kind of, know, hierarchically in this country, as you know, Jonathan, you we are a very hierarchical country in many ways in terms of

how the country is still structured. It doesn't translate to much in the 21st century, but ⁓ it's a huge honor and it's not, that's never lost on me and nor is it lost on my siblings or frankly anyone I know that has been born with a title. it, know, obviously the Duke of Rutland title was at some point in time given to my family.

by virtue of what they had done in a war most likely. I mean that's the case with most historic houses and most aristocratic families.

right? Okay, yeah. So yes, so that's really, and I guess, yeah, it doesn't, it definitely doesn't mean upgrades on a flight, unfortunately, but it's an amazing thing to be, you know, to be lucky enough to have.

Jonathan Thomas (23:23)
Yeah, you're fine. Yeah.

Well, and you've also collected a new one. You're now a Viscountess. Now, is, is, ⁓ I, for those unfamiliar with the structure, is that an upgrade or a downgrade or a lateral move? How does that?

Violet (23:41)
I know.

So

it will be, it will technically, I mean, my father, funny enough, reminded me of this or told me about this. So because I'm the daughter of a Duke, technically it's a downgrade becoming a Viscountess. I, because I'm, because William's family, my husband's family is, his parents are the Earl and Countess of Lindsay.

Jonathan Thomas (24:09)
Okay.

Violet (24:11)
which is one below so you've sort got dukes and duchesses, kings, queens, princes, princesses, and then you've got dukes and duchesses, then countesses and earls So eventually I will be having a big upgrade, but in this moment in time, my father sort of kept saying to me, you don't have to become a Viscountess because you are my daughter and my dad is my dad, so he's a duke, so.

But I kind of laughed it off and said, no, I'm very excited to have the same name as my husband. As we all are, think it's fair to say, when you get married, you're a team. So you want to have the same name. But in technical terms, guess it's inferior down road. But to me, it's very much an upgrade. love my Countess Vi is something that I kind of love the sound of.

Jonathan Thomas (24:51)
you

That'll sound nice. So does that mean though that you outrank your own husband?

Violet (25:03)
⁓ not, not really. He kind of really outranks me. It's just because I'm, it's just because I'm my father's daughter. technically he tells me that I, yeah, that I sort of can or should or could remain Lady Violet Garnet as opposed to being Vicandess. But I love Vicandess. think it's much nicer, ⁓ much nicer than Lady in lots of ways.

Jonathan Thomas (25:05)
You

Alright.

Well, so from, ⁓ the next question is kind of going into your business, into your business realm. So what inspired you to start HeritageXplore? Cause I, when I came across this a couple of years ago, I was fascinated by it. it's, it doesn't seem an obvious choice for an aristocrat to start to do a, to start a tech startup. So what led to that?

Violet (25:35)
Yes.

Well, think it's, you know, I think as I said at the very beginning, I think we're all a product of our experiences. And, and in a funny way, you know, Heritage Explorers is was eventually such an obvious choice for me. So I started in 2020 a podcast called Touch Us, which I founded with my mom, I actually studied in UCLA for a year ⁓ in LA.

And during that time I got into podcasts, this is in 2020, so five years ago, when podcasting was not what it is now, I'm sure you'll agree, Jonathan, being a podcast host yourself. And I remember coming back from UCLA and saying to my mom, listen, we've got these incredible historic houses that are still independently owned and run.

why, you know, the stories that live within the walls of these places are not being shared in a modern medium. And the beauty of podcasting, as you said, Jonathan, before we went online is, you you can edit. And so I love this idea of giving, you know, historic house owners and custodians are not by any means media trained. They're great storytellers, but they're not media trained. And I remember coming back and saying to my mom, listen, I think you should be the host. I'll produce it. And here's the idea. You will basically be sitting in front of

a direct contemporary of yours, know, a custodian of any sort of shape, size of house or title. And you will basically be discussing, you know, what it means to be a custodian in the 21st century. And that's kind of what we created. And it was just such an eye opening and incredible experience for two and a half years. We were on the road in between COVID lockdowns. And when we were able to, we'd get on the road and go and see three houses and sit with the custodians. And I, in that time, meet the teams of these historic houses.

And it became so clear and obvious to me the shared challenges and shared ambitions that the independent historic houses have that aren't being addressed collectively and or weren't, I should say, being addressed collectively. And I remember thinking, OK, the podcast is one thing. like, you know, we had two and a half million people listening to that show in the first year and we had no marketing budget to speak of, no money. mean, I sort of borrowed a couple of thousand pounds of mum to get it going. And thereafter, I was kind of on we were kind of on our own and

We had this incredible, incredible, and I think we were very lucky. Bridgerton was going live. Everyone was stuck at home. We had this incredible organic reach with that podcast that I could never have fathomed. And I remember thinking, you know, actually post kind of COVID, you know, and my background was in marketing for 10 years, Jonathan. I remember thinking, hang on a second, you know, how did I not, and I grew up in this world.

If I don't know about these historic houses and the fact that they are open to the public, you can go and see them. They are the most extraordinary things to go and see and hold with your own hands. If I didn't know about them and I spent weeks and months searching them and researching them, how on earth is anyone else expected to go and finally reach the doorsteps of these places themselves? And I just remember thinking, I'm passionate about

historic houses, but specifically ones that are still independently owned and run. And I, and I remember thinking I want to create the kind of, you know, forgive me, but it's a kind of, it's a relevant or useful example. Like I want to become the kind of Airbnbbooking.com, but for visits to historic houses in this country and hopefully eventually in Europe. And it was such a natural sort of progression at the time I had a marketing business. And I just remember thinking,

know, experiential travel is on the rise. These historic houses want and need more people going to see them. They can't get their head above the parapet because organizations like the National Trust are absolutely enormous conglomerates comparative to the independent historic house world. And I, know, I really firmly believe that independence is best and I really finally want to sort of, you know, find a way to ensure that more people

know that, understand it, and then hopefully share that sentiment and go and sort of vote with their, you know, vote with their wallets and go and spend time with these independent houses. And I, you know, needless to say, you know, I'm also so passionate about them, because I think no experience of an independent house is ever the same. The gift shop's always different, the restaurant's always different, the farm shops have different things in them. There's very little in the form of ropes that wrap around the rooms, you know, it feels like a much more integrated experience. And again, I just don't think

I didn't feel like the combined and collective weight of just how magical the independent houses are was really being shared in a way that I felt that next generation of heritage curious characters could really engage with. And so there came HeritageXplore last year. We launched it in May 2023. I honestly, my background is not in tech, it is in marketing.

And really my background in Belvoir, like I've learned so much through Belvoir and then through making the podcast and meeting all these other houses that I just really felt like I could give it a go and see what we could do. And it's been such an amazing and exciting kind of year getting this business off the ground. But that's kind of where it all came about really.

Jonathan Thomas (31:10)
Well, as somebody else with a marketing background, I applaud what you've done so far. It's incredible what you've built. And I completely agree with you. I've been to all different kinds of stately home and heritage attractions in the UK over 25 years. And the most interesting experiences I've always been at usually the independent privately owned stately homes. I love a good National Trust property or an English heritage property, but

They, they're more museum like than homes and these independent ones are still private homes. So like, you still feel like you're wandering around someone's house, which is always nosier than the day.

Violet (31:52)
I

agree. I laugh and make jokes, but it's true. I think there's nothing more magical than going around an independent house. And more often than not, you'll either see a paper left out from the day before, the historic house owners walked through and left the newspaper. There's much more of sense of, yeah, you're walking into a living and breathing. History's being written every day.

And I think to be able to walk through a place that still has its history being written about, within it is kind of exciting. Whereas, it's not a criticism, I think, the National Trust and English Heritage do art and is amazing. But I think they are by the very nature, they're fossilized, they're frozen in time. The history stopped the moment that house was given to them with a dowry to maintain it for the future. So.

Yeah, I agree. think it's an entirely different experience visiting an independent house versus a national trust or English heritage one.

Jonathan Thomas (32:54)
Well, we managed to go through three questions and one answer. yeah. No, you're fine. So now the English aristocratic stately home world is obviously rooted in tradition and a natural conservatism. So how did you convince all these owners to give a new platform or a new tech idea a try?

Violet (32:56)
I thought, as I was saying, that I suddenly thought, oh no, I know I'm answering other questions, I'm sorry.

Great question. And that wasn't, it definitely wasn't straightforward, let me tell you. mean, I think, listen, I think every historic house and the beauty of working with these independent houses is that you cannot be an independent historic house owner in this day and age. And no one is by the way, you can't be an independent historic house owner and not have a mildly entrepreneurial or very, very, very strong willed entrepreneurial streak.

because invariably, you know, they aren't sitting with humongous reserves or lots of them aren't sitting with big reserves to kind of, to do nothing. The only option is to do something. And as a result, you know, I think timing is so much of life. And I think timing was good to go around and start this business because as I said, coming out of COVID, I really got the sense that, and I think there's plenty of data out there to sort of prove this. And I think it's a growing trend that people

you know, fundamentally, you know, I think more and more people are kind of in the business of making memories and not buying things and increasingly so. And I think, you know, the value that we put on making a memory in an incredibly beautiful place, you know, I think is something that finally we're valuing, you know, more so than the car that you, you know, potentially want to drive. I think, you know, I think there's a world in which we're starting to recognize that actually, you know, memories.

Memories matter and spending time and seeing things of any kind, be it an amazing kind of rice paddy field in Bali or a historic house in England. I think there's a kind of growing trend towards that. But it took me time and I just basically had to just go around quite literally the houses. I would sort of do road trips where I'd start at Belvoir.

and then I travel up the West Coast of Scotland or I travel down through Wales and then into sort of Cheltenham and head to Sudley and East Nor and all of these places. And essentially, you know, much like any other tech business or any other business, I just pitch them. You know, I'd pitch them with a deck in hand and lots of them didn't get it initially and sort of said, you know, Violet, what is this? Like, what are you trying to do?

And then lots of them did get it instantaneously. And it's been a very similar journey ever since. We've got just shy of, excuse me, 50 houses on board. And we'll have a further kind of hopefully about 30 joining before the end of this year. So we're growing and we've got more and houses that are sort of recognizing and seeing the value and what we're doing and the output that we're creating, which is super exciting. And...

Jonathan Thomas (35:44)
wow.

Violet (36:01)
I hope getting houses on board will just get easier and easier. In theory it should, right? Because we've sort of, we've earned our stripes now after a year of being alive and kicking. But yeah, it's been...

Jonathan Thomas (36:12)
The

law of attraction, right?

Violet (36:14)
Exactly. Do you believe in that kind of thing? Yes, do. I pick time. Pick time.

Jonathan Thomas (36:17)
Yeah, I do. do. Yeah.

all. So ⁓ you're no stranger to podcasts, you've already talked about the Duchess podcast, can you tell us about the Hidden Heritage podcast? Is that part of HeritageXplore or is that separate?

Violet (36:22)
Thank you.

Yes, it is part of HeritageXplore. We created Dutch the podcast and it was always my mom interviewing her peers, as I said, and they were always we always wanted to have the women at the microphone. There were two reasons that one background in PR marketing, I knew that that would create a bit more of a stir and a spin if it was a woman coming to the microphone, because again, I'm well aware and sure that so many of your listeners don't know this, you know, historic houses tend to be passed through and down through the male line, by virtue of something called

cremagenator, which is a, you know, which is legally binding. And so I always felt particularly growing up in Belvoir again, I always felt like history was always documented through the prism of a male lens and never done so through a female lens. And I was always so curious, as I said at the beginning about, you know, the women that had, that had, you know, shaped and formed Belvoir's history and indeed, you know, other historic houses as well. So I felt really strongly that I wanted to have, you know, the

Duke and Dut, or shall I say, you know, the Countess of Derby on the podcast as opposed to her husband Teddy. And of course, you know, Noseley went down through her husband's line, but every single woman that marries into these historic houses by and large has always made an enormous impact, be it on the interior design of that house or the gardens of those houses. So, ⁓

So anyway, so that podcast we did for a few years and then we naturally just ran out of women that wanted to come on the show. I think, as I said, you know, no no historic house owner is media trained. So I think, you know, naturally the people that really gravitate towards speaking about these kind of things on a public medium like this and then others that didn't. So we kind of naturally ran out of runway basically.

And then I remember thinking, we've got this amazing audience. I want to continue the conversation around independent historic houses and everything that goes with it, you know, from the nature, the architecture, the art. Can I get sort of other experts, other custodians, but not just the ladies, can I get them onto the podcast and can we sort of, you know, have continued conversations, but just broaden, broaden the conversation topics and the individuals that we invite on the show. And that's really what Hidden Heritage is. And it's

it's very much a part of HeritageXplore. It's like a kind of marketing asset for us really. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But I absolutely love doing that show. And as I said before, we went live. I've missed the fact that I haven't done a podcast episode since April. Because it is just, it's such a wonderful opportunity to meet like-minded individuals with shared interests and have a good chat. So what's not to like?

Jonathan Thomas (38:52)
Yeah, that's for us too, yeah.

That's ⁓ we when we do a hiatus, it's like I feel like I'm missing a limb like I should be planning the next podcast. It's So So, ⁓ tell us more about ⁓ what is heritage explore lux which is your new offering and how Do think it would appeal to american listeners?

Violet (39:21)
Yeah, yeah, I bet. I bet, I bet.

Yeah, so HeritageXplore, we launched HeritageXplore, as I said last year, HeritageXplore at its core is a booking and experience platform. So you can go on to HeritageXplore, like you would go on to Airbnb or booking.com to basically look at when are these houses open, what's happening behind their doors, how far are they away from wherever you are, be it London or middle of the country, whatever it might be.

⁓ and basically, you know, discover lots of places that you probably didn't know that were right next to wherever you are in the country and go and, you know, book your visit to them through us and then go and turn up at the gates and, and, you know, be, ⁓ enamored and, and sort of rolled into a world of one of our historic houses. So the core of what we do is that side of the business and the platform. And then on the other side, we have created something called heritage explore lux, which you mentioned, and that is essentially.

very, very, very unique and very bespoke tours of these historic houses where you eat, sleep, wine, dine, experience these historic houses with the custodians who run them today. And it's a sort of four to five day, every tour is slightly different. Every tour we incorporate different houses. There's always a different theme to every tour. I'm talking about it like we do 20 of these. We only do three to four HeritageXplore Lux tours in a year.

and there's only ever 10 to sort of 14 spaces on every tour. So it is a very, very, very sort of, you know, we sold out of our September tour within a matter of kind of weeks basically, because there are such sort of rarefied space on it. But I think it's because you really do get that kind of, you know, you're kind of living in the place for the time that you're there and you're actually hearing about the history from, you know, the person that.

that runs it today and carries with them all of that sort of familial history, which is always the stuff that we really want to know. What did your great grandfather say to you about X, Y, Z? Hearing about that through, be it my father at Belvoir or the Earl of Mansfield at Schoon Palace, the palace where all the Scottish kings were crowned, it's so much more, it's extraordinary, frankly, to be sitting around enjoying a glass of wine or champagne.

and hearing about these historic houses through them is a gift. And we thought that we need to create bespoke tours and kind of a wonderful sort of journey and experience for people to purchase them and join us on. And as I said, yeah, we've got a busy calendar next year with four tours coming up and all the kind of brochures being released at the end of the month, which is very exciting.

Jonathan Thomas (42:21)
sounds like something I would love. it sounds really cool. I'm all, and like you said, you've mentioned earlier, I'm a huge fan of experiential travel. ⁓ experiences are my stock and trade, because that's primarily what our readers want to hear about is experiences. They don't want to hear that we went to the Tower of London or we did this or that. They want to know what kind of experience we had and what the place was like. And it's a difficult balance to get right. ⁓

Violet (42:22)
Yeah

Thank you.

Jonathan Thomas (42:50)
I get it right. ⁓

Violet (42:52)
From everything I've listened to, think you clearly do.

And I, yeah, I just think, you know, I think, as I said, and it sounds like you agree, I just think I'm such a firm believer. I COVID really like taught me fundamentally to value, like when we go to the grave, you know, there's nothing that goes with us apart from our memories. And I'm such a big believer in that. And I think I'm just sort of done with collecting things. I want to collect experiences and memories. that's sort of where I'm at. And really, truly that inspired so much HeritageXplore.

Jonathan Thomas (43:09)
Yeah.

Violet (43:22)
Lux because I've grown up living, fortunately, the Lux experience, you know, I've lived it. That is to me, you know, a big part of what my life has been to date. And I am just so keen, by the way, as are these historic house custodians, they want people to come and experience these places like this. They just didn't know how to go about selling the tours. They didn't know how to go about putting them together.

And that's kind of where, you know, we come in, we put it all together. I am the host with the owners of every single tour. So I'm there making sure that everyone's, comfortable and happy and we all have an amazing time. we did our most recent tour that we did was in April of this year. And it was absolutely amazing. I mean, just extraordinary. And three historic houses in England, three historic houses in Scotland. We called it the Ducal Tour because we were sort of

essentially we were seeing two, three ducal families in the space of four days. And it was just a magical, magical experience.

Jonathan Thomas (44:23)
Well, I gotta ask which houses...

Violet (44:26)
Okay, so we did Unboughton, which is the Duke of Beclue's house in Northamptonshire. Then we went up to Burleigh and Burleigh is owned by the Rock family. Orlando Rock is the chairman of Christie's in London and with his wife Miranda. And actually, interestingly, Burleigh went down through the female line. So Burleigh actually technically kind of came down through Miranda.

Jonathan Thomas (44:47)
Interesting.

Violet (44:48)
and we had lunch with them in their private dining room and then we went and did a tour with them both and you can imagine Orlando being the chairman of Christie's like it's like listening to a lyricist I mean the way he describes the items in the room ⁓ you know the paintings is like nothing I've ever heard before and then we went to Belvoir and we did a black tie dinner at Belvoir followed by a wonderful kind of music being played in the Elizabeth Saloon and then

Jonathan Thomas (44:56)
Yeah.

You

Violet (45:18)
onto a rather, or ended up being a rather late night and rather competitive sort of snooker game that was played into the early hours ⁓ with my brother actually being there as well. So that was quite amusing. And then we went on up to Perth and ⁓ were chauffeur driven to Schoon Palace. ⁓ And as I mentioned Schoon as well, the Kings of Scotland were crowned. So went to Schoon, the most extraordinary history there.

went to school and we were staying there for two evenings. Both evenings were sort of black tie dinners, know, bank pipes being played, whiskey tasting prior to dinner, which is quite a punchy thing to do before dinner. Everyone was quite merry by the time we got to And then we went to visit Glam's Castle and then on to what was the Duke of Athel's sort of Highland Palace, Blair Athel.

And we went there and did a day visit there as well. it really, yeah, it kind of had something for everyone. It was wonderful.

Jonathan Thomas (46:14)
Yeah.

Yeah, just sign me up.

Violet (46:22)
Darling, you have to come on the next one next year for sure.

Jonathan Thomas (46:25)
I'm there. So speaking of art, you now have a new artist in residence program. so tell us about that and how that's going to enhance these visitor experiences to these houses.

Violet (46:27)
Okay, good.

Yeah, so actually what we're launching, so we're launching next, we're still deciding actually, but in truth, but it will either be launched before Christmas or in January of next year. We're launching a new membership. much like the kind of memberships that I'm sure many of your listeners are familiar with, and I know you are, know, the National Trust has got a membership, Historic Houses has got a membership, English Heritage has got a membership.

all of these memberships are very rooted in visits to these places. in theory, when you become a member of the historic houses, you get to see 300 places with your membership. Acknowledging, I think, slightly generational shift in that desire for those experiential things.

We essentially, so Artists in Residence forms one of four parts of our membership that will be launching later this year. In this first instance, it's just an amazing, amazing, amazing event that we're gonna roll out in a big way next year. But essentially we're four contemporary artists into four historic houses from HeritageXplore for the course of four to six weeks. And in that time, they are going to be creating a brand new collection of art.

And that art will be based on the history, architecture, color palette, nature that surrounds it. Whatever sort of, you know, ultimately about that historic house inspires the artist, they will then infuse that historic house's story or whatever it might be into their own, you know, style of art. It's not that they're painting pictures of the historic house they're in residence at, but it's that it's fundamentally tied to and inspired by.

that particular house. it will be the first time really in essentially a century that contemporary art has been born out of these historic houses uninspired by them. Because if you think about it, know, ⁓ Reynolds, Sargent, so many of those artists, you know, from bygone eras.

they would often be in residence at these historic houses and they were often inspired by the subjects or the landscape or the place. And it was entirely organic, know, those artists became basically sort of friends of the historic, the custodians and the aristocrats of their day. And we sort of looked at that and thought, hang on a second.

Like I know having spoken to all of my member houses that these historic houses are desperate and want to have artists staying in residence free of charge, creating these incredible collections of art. And the art collections will then go on exhibition in the houses and then the art will go on sale online. And so that will give an opportunity for buyers from all over the world to purchase these really unique, really unique pieces that have been inspired by these historic houses.

And it's so emblematic, Jonathan, of what fundamentally I kind of want HeritageXplore to stand for, which is that, you know, I love the idea because that we're injecting, you know, we're pairing together the kind of contemporary world with the old world, and we're bringing the two together. And I think when they collide, they create, I think, the most beautiful, ⁓ most enriching experiences that you could ever kind of want for.

And I think the exhibitions and seeing these pieces in situ will be absolutely mesmerizing. And so the Artisan Residence, as I said, is sort of one part of our membership. We're launching a cultural membership basically at end of this year, beginning of next. And as a cultural member of HeritageXplore, you will get automatic access and invitations to all of our Artisan Residence exhibitions that we're doing next year. You'll also get access to our State Eat Supper Club.

which again is something that we're launching, where essentially you'll be invited to very special kind of supper club evenings at different historic houses with some of the top chefs from the UK and hopefully worldwide eventually. Cooking in these places, there'll be kind of black tie evenings. And then we're also doing a kind of comedy club as part of it. again, sort of secret comedy evenings at historic houses as a member, you'll be able to have access to it.

It's really exciting, but the Artisan Residence is kind of one part of everything else that's also to come, but it's our first part and it's just massively exciting really to be putting it all together and making it happen.

Jonathan Thomas (51:02)
I feel like you're burying the lead a little bit there because that membership program sounds incredible. It sounds like a great idea ⁓ when in the tech world, memberships is where it's at. It's all about the monthly recurring revenue. Yeah, we restarted our own membership program last year and it's been a huge success. it's, yeah.

Violet (51:08)
Thank you.

Tell me about it. I know, I know.

Really, that's so interesting.

What does your membership include or entail?

Jonathan Thomas (51:27)
So it's the sales pitch is that our members are supporting great long form writing about British travel history and culture. ⁓ And so the, we wanted to do was remove Google ads from Anglotopia because they are terrible. And ⁓ yeah, they would take over the experience on the website. But we needed that revenue to run the website. So we thought, well, we'll do this membership to kind of replace that and then remove the ads once we hit a certain.

Violet (51:43)
I agree with

Jonathan Thomas (51:56)
Target, which we did earlier this year. And it's been great. No ads. It's been wonderful. And as a member, get a special weekly newsletter every Sunday. It's called the Sunday Post. And it's about an experience or a place or something interesting about Britain that we've done over the years. I'll have to add you to the list so you can get them. And then you get.

Violet (52:19)
Yeah, please. I'd love to. I'd love to get a Sunday post. And how many members...

Sorry, go on.

Jonathan Thomas (52:26)
Yeah, and then you get early podcasts. They'll get this podcast on Wednesday instead of Friday like everybody else. And they get monthly feature articles. And we've arranged discounts for them that are exclusively available to them. so a bunch of little things. Yeah.

Violet (52:40)
Well, that's kind of what I was going to get to when we go off, I'm

talking about what else we can do together, because I think I kind of imagined that you might have a membership thing in place. I sort of thought we could maybe discuss that afterwards. Yeah.

Jonathan Thomas (52:51)
Yeah Yeah, we will talk about that. Yeah, so

we're at we're at we're hovering around 250 members ⁓ So about two-thirds of them pay for the entire year upfront in advance and then the rest are monthly members who pay who they get charged a fee every month and it's ⁓ I'm it was one of those things that I thought about for years because everybody else was doing it with patreon and

Violet (52:59)
Wow.

Yeah, in advance, yeah.

That's amazing.

Yes.

Jonathan Thomas (53:21)
Then

I saw what the success the American Vicountess has had with her Heritage Patreon and I thought, okay, I really need to think about doing this. so last year we finally decided, all right, this is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do it our way. it's worked out well so far. so, yeah, we're quite a ways away from my pie in the sky goals, a thousand members. If we get to a thousand members, then...

Violet (53:39)
That's amazing.

Jonathan Thomas (53:51)
we can do so many wonderful things related to British travel and history. And so that's the goal. But 250 is where we're at now. Our next kind of milestone goal is 300. And if we get to 300, we're going to remove the ads from our London website. And then we're going to launch a special London newsletter as well. yeah. Well, thank you.

Violet (54:08)
Amazing.

wow, God, that's incredible. Well, I wish you luck with getting it. But it's

encouraging to hear that, like, yeah, the membership model's worked out for you, because I kind of agree. I was nervous to create it, like, straight away off the bat of launching HeritageXplore But I've, you know, I've also, I think, just had so many people email me saying, I want to be a member of HeritageXplore. Like, I want to kind of be a part of the world of Internet in a way that feels a bit more intimate, I guess.

Jonathan Thomas (54:34)
Right.

Yeah. that's the big thing is we kind of like with Anglotopia in general over 18 years, we have a kind of ⁓ a two way conversation with our followers. And then the people who are members, have a, you know, we have a kind of a one-on-one relationship almost because they only they can comment on those articles. Only they can, ⁓ only they can, can participate in our private chat forum, which is a feature I forgot to mention.

And so it's a kind of a private place to appreciate these things. And then we all get to know each other and we all get to talk about each other's trips and stuff. it's, yeah, it's that one-on-one so important. Yeah. So anyway, enough about us. Let's move on to some more questions because we are running out of time on this one hour podcast here. So looking ahead, where do you see heritage tourism in 10 years?

Violet (55:05)
But that's very.

That's very cool. Yeah, yeah, that's very cool. can see that.

Yeah, sorry, no, no.

Jonathan Thomas (55:34)
How do you think HeritageXplore will evolve with it other than the membership program?

Violet (55:42)
So I think I'm really excited, kind of rather controversially, but I'm so excited about the marriage of ⁓ heritage and AI. And that probably sounds, know, there are probably some listeners of yours who are horrified by that statement. But I think there's such an exciting world in which...

I hope we can be one of the kind pioneering places that creates this technology or rather, you know, molds a model and a pre-existing AI model to do this. But I really love the idea of, you know, when you walk into a historic house, the experiences on offer right now to actually, you know, learn about it are either a guidebook, dense text, images, or a guide who is the fountain of all knowledge unequivocally.

but invariably moves through the place at their own pace, isn't that convivial or isn't that doable for people with young families that perhaps have sort of kids screaming, they still want to walk out of that place being like they've learned something. So I really love and I'm excited by this idea of creating an AI tool in which a visitor through HeritageXplore can download an AI chatbot that has essentially been fed a large language model.

based on that historic house that's really rooted in stories from the custodians, stories from the guides, essentially all of the information, like factual information about that house and familial information, which is also crucial that we can feed into the large language model. And then essentially being able to, as you walk around, know, invariably, Jonathan, the things that interest you when you walk into historic house and things that interest me are, I don't doubt going to be different.

And at the moment, there's no way in which you can sort of self-select which bits of a particular guard room or great hall take your fancy and which of those take mine. So I love this idea of being able to interact with something in real time that can give you affirmative answers from a trusted large language model about the painting that you're looking at and the story behind that painting or the marble fireplace that surrounds the fire.

And the story of where that came from, all the cannons on the cannonade, what's the story of that? So I love this idea, you know, making the heritage and history of these Astora houses slightly more interactive by virtue of AI, I think is super exciting and interesting. You know, it's something we've spoken about before launching HeritageXplore, and I'll continue to, you know, keep basically, we would love to start diving into it as soon as the membership's live. That's kind of the ambition is really to start sort of looking at that properly.

But I think it's just such an exciting space. And obviously, we work very closely with the Houses, we speak to them every day. I hope they would entrust us to sort of do a good job and work with us to sort of deliver a product of good standard for something like that. So I don't doubt that AI and Heritage are gonna sort of merge and marry at some point in the future. And I think that's an exciting thing. I don't think that's something to be scared of. I think guides will never be replaced. I think we'll always want...

guides to sort of mind the rooms and like offer that human touch but I think that's really exciting and I think I don't also doubt that historic houses will increasingly play different roles you know the roles that they play since the 1950s when they were first open to the public has mostly been people walking around them I think increasingly you're saying things like wellness retreats happening at historic houses or a sound bath happening in

an incredible kind of stately room. And I think there's something in that, I really do. I kind of jokingly say to lots of our, in our newsletter, I occasionally will encourage visitors via HeritageXplore to our member houses to lie down when they come into some of those, when you have those incredible sort of ceiling paintings and murals, I often say to people, lie down, lie down in that room and look up and let it absorb you and be absorbed by it.

And I think it's things like that making these, you know, making these places, you know, even more immersive by virtue of the experience that you're offering is something I see in the future for sure.

Jonathan Thomas (59:56)
I'm interested to hear how you're bullish on AI. We'll have to talk about that after our interview, because it's presented both problems for us as a publication, but also it's created so many opportunities that readers don't even notice. anyway. So Belvoir aside, what are some of your favorite stately homes that Americans should visit, like your top five?

Violet (1:00:02)
Thank you.

That's such a difficult one, I think I can try and summarize. So, Sudeley Castle has got to be one of them, and that is based about 10 minutes outside of Cheltenham in England, and in the sort of southwest of England.

And I mean, there are many reasons why I'd say Sudley. It's a sort of Tudor, like it's the most beautiful kind of Tudor castle. But I think for me, it's the fact that it has in bowed sort of in the house, it's got Catherine Parr. So she's the only queen in the UK's history to ever be buried outside of, you know, a of a royal or a sort of a Christian kind of church or cathedral.

So it's kind of extraordinary to go and look at her tomb and see her sort of, she obviously survived her husband and it's just an amazing, amazing to think that this extraordinary queen who outlived Henry VIII is there. So I think Sully has to be one of them. I mentioned it a few times, but I think Schoon is pretty extraordinary just by virtue of the fact that it's, it was the home.

of where all the kings of Scotland were crowned. You can see the Stone of Scoun, which is famous. mean, actually, unfortunately, the Stone of Scoun is no longer at Scoun. It's now in Perth, but Perth is 10 minutes away. But it's just that you can see the setting and the sort of slab on which the stone sat. And that's where every single king throughout history, Scottish king, was crowned. So that's an amazing place. It also has wonderful white peacocks outside, which I love. And it's just got the most fascinating history on the inside. So...

I think the skewness be one of them. I actually am going to say as my next one. Well, I think there's a really interesting place called Gerritch Castle, which is in North Wales. It's on our platform and it's actually a ruin, it's got it's undergoing the biggest restoration since Windsor Castle burned down. So they're ⁓ they're building Gerritch Castle back brick by brick from ruin. It's very sadly, it had it was a sort of

the ruin is a result of in the 1950s, lots of these historic houses just took the roofs off their homes and emptied them to avoid paying the ridiculous inheritance tax that was being placed on them post World War Two. I mean, that sounds like a mad thing to do, but it was kind of desperate times for desperate measures in some instances. And so it's quite amazing the new kind of custodian, Mark, he's doing an incredible job at

building this place back brick by brick. I think it will be the most extraordinary thing to witness and watch happen and unfold over the course of the next 20 years. So that's a very special place. I am also going to say, I think Scion's quite amazing. Scion is about 20 minutes outside of central London. It's a London residence of the Duke and Duchess of Northumberland. It has got some incredible Robert Adams sort of architecture.

It's just, A, you cannot believe that it's 20 minutes outside of London, because it's a beautiful and big historic home. So the setting is kind of extraordinary. ⁓ It's got the most beautiful gardens there, and Orangery, which is sort of famous. They've featured in stacks of films. But I think for me, it's the kind of Robert Adams architecture, particularly when you walk into the marble hall, which is really striking.

So I just think that's a very, very beautiful place that's very easy for people to get to. I think that's four. I think my fifth one, I'm going to say a new house. And this is a sort of hot off the press because we haven't even announced it yet that this house has just joined us. But we've just had an amazing, amazing castle in the Borders, which I'm sure a lot of your listeners have maybe never heard of. But it's, I think, probably one of the most beautiful Scottish castles there is. It's called

Drumlamrig Castle and it's owned by the Duke of Buccleuch and it sits in this kind of incredible bowl and oasis of woodland surrounding it. And that's gonna be our fourth and final Artisan Residence house. And yeah, it's about an hour and a half south of Edinburgh, but it's just extraordinary. So I'm gonna throw Drumlamrig out there and give a big sort of, you know, hot off the press with it.

Jonathan Thomas (1:04:51)
All of those answers were surprising, so I will have to link to those on your website so people can go.

Violet (1:04:55)
I did.

Jonathan Thomas (1:04:57)
interesting choice of castles and houses there. well, for my last question, I feel like I have to ask this. Did you see the new Downton Abbey film and what did you think of it?

Violet (1:05:01)
it.

I've not seen it yet and I'm

to see it. So I need to go and, you I need to get myself to a cinema and make sure I go and see it ASAP. Because I, you know, I know the family from Highcliff very well. I know Lord and Lady Carnarvon very well. And it's an incredible thing that they've done with, you know, landing the Downton Abbey series with Julianne Fellows. And it's just the most extraordinary. I do sort of very much.

give a huge amount of like thanks really to Julian Fellows and the director and creator of Bridgerton as well for sort of igniting, you know, this resurgence and renaissance of fascination and love of historic places. Because I do think they are largely to thank and responsible for it. And I think it's a wonderful thing. And I just, you know, I fundamentally want HeritageXplore to become.

the kind of place where people go having watched those films and felt inspired. I want it to be the place they go to basically make a visit and get themselves there.

Jonathan Thomas (1:06:09)
as Visit Britain does continues to say in all their surveys, like the number one reason a lot of Americans wanna visit Britain is because of the TV shows and films that they've seen places. So you gotta position yourself for that. So what a fascinating discussion this has been about Britain's aristocratic world. Thank you for appearing on the Brit, on the Anglotopia podcast. We'd love to have you on again sometime.

Violet (1:06:19)
Exactly,

Thank

Jonathan Thomas (1:06:35)
And if you enjoyed listening to this episode of the Anglotopia podcast, please like, subscribe, or leave a comment. And please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia Club for early access to new episodes and help support independent long form writing about British travel history and culture. Thank you again, Lady Violet.

Violet (1:06:52)
Thank you so much for having me. I'm definitely going to want to sign up to be a member of Anglotopia And yeah, I'd love to come on again at some point in the near future. So thank you very much.

Jonathan Thomas (1:07:01)
Fantastic, thank you.