Jonathan Thomas (00:02) just check and make sure everything is recording. You're uploading. Way down. Way down. Way down. Amanda (00:15) presume that's not to your wife. Jonathan Thomas (00:17) Yeah, that's that's the the dogs so we've got got two dogs and a cat in here right now. So they're. Yeah. So next week we will have four to three dogs in the cat in here so. Amanda (00:20) Yeah and a stuffed chicken. Well, you won't have any hope of getting through an hour's recording then. Jonathan Thomas (00:34) No. Well, thankfully the software we use has something called Smart Mute. like it, it mutes me when I'm not talking. So they can bark away and nobody will ever hear. So, all right, we are ready to go. Welcome back to the Anglotopia podcast. The podcasts are people who love British travel, history, and culture. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today we're venturing West into the heart of Celtic Britain. With us today is Amanda Whitehead, an official Wales guide with an incredible 25 years of experience showing North American visitors the wonders of Wales. Amanda specializes in creating unforgettable Welsh experiences for American tourists and tour groups, many of whom combine their Welsh adventures with visits to England's West country or Lake District. Through her company, Conwy Tours, she's become the go-to expert for Americans wanting to explore this magnificent Celtic country. We're going to have a chat today about what makes Wales so special for American visitors, how she's seen Welsh tourism evolve over the past quarter century and her insider tips for exploring this wonderful Celtic nation that often gets overshadowed by its English neighbor. Welcome Amanda. Amanda (01:49) Hi, I'm Croeso. We're glad to be here. Jonathan Thomas (01:52) Thank you for being on the podcast. So I've been dying to have somebody from Wales on. I'm so glad you actually contacted us. And so I was thrilled. I was like, that was an instant. Yes. For me. Let's talk about Wales So, ⁓ what drew you to become an official Wales guy 25 years ago and how has your role evolved since then? Amanda (02:12) Well, I started off in life actually as a mountain leader, sort of guiding people through the Snowdonias Mountains and gradually I discovered I like the talking as much as walking. So I took my qualifications and I ran the two businesses side by side for a while but now I'm getting a bit longer in the tooth. There tends to be a lot more of the talking and maybe a bit less walking or certainly not as fast. Jonathan Thomas (02:25) Ha So what does it take to become an official Wales guide? And what kind of training or certification is involved? Amanda (02:48) Well... Yeah, in a lot of countries, as you know, in Europe, you know, you have to be a licensed tour guide and it's illegal not to be. Britain is a free state, if you like, so anybody can call themselves a guide. But we do have a very good system of ⁓ licensing tour guides. You have to study hard for, well, time or full time for one or two years. You have to not just sit exams in the knowledge, but you have to do practicals, taking people around a religious building, taking people on a walking tour through a crowded town, guiding on a coach, which of course you call a bus, but we call a coach, and tour planning projects. So it's quite a hard hurdle to cross over. And here in Wales we're very fortunate in that our Welsh Government does recognise our qualifications and we've got the word official on our badges. Jonathan Thomas (04:00) It's always good to be officially official. So you've worked extensively with North American groups. How did you develop this kind of specialization and what makes American tourists different from other visitors who would be coming from elsewhere? Amanda (04:02) Yeah. it's partly because I'm not a linguist. As you know, a lot of tour guides will guide in a foreign language, but I have an affinity anyway. I was an exchange student for a year in America and ⁓ you know, a lot of North Americans and Australians come to Britain and I gradually, you know, like in this industry, you gradually get contacts who recommend you to other contacts and thankfully if you give them a good job, they come back. So yes, a lot of my business is with North American clients, both ⁓ individuals and couples, all larger tour groups on a bus. Jonathan Thomas (04:58) So what's been your most memorable tour or group that you've guided over this, your career? Amanda (05:04) it's always the last one you did. But the ones I like the best nowadays are the ones I can bring my expertise in because in this day of Wikipedia and Googling everything, people don't so much want the facts from a tour guide because they can look up how many bricks in that cathedral or what they want to know is why is it here? What do locals think of this? How has it evolved? Jonathan Thomas (05:06) Ha ha ha! Amanda (05:34) a sort of interpretation or insight. So the groups I like the best probably are ones with a slight specialization rather than ones that say we've got two days, take us to all the World Heritage sites. So I feel I can tailor to somebody who, I mean, I've even taken firemen to all the, they were visiting from New York and I soon found that rather than churches, they wanted me Jonathan Thomas (05:49) Heck it all in. Amanda (06:04) to take them to the local fire station so they could have a cup of coffee with the lads. I've done pilgrimages, with an interest in religious sites. I've done people who were interested in the Druids and prehistory. And I think that's where a good experienced tour guide comes in. You're not just taking people to places, you're introducing them to, you're a hostess really. Jonathan Thomas (06:06) You Amanda (06:32) introducing them to people that can give them the specialism that they want. Jonathan Thomas (06:37) So you're very versatile. You're not offering on the peg this, this, and this. like, can talk to the people who want to book with you and build a sort of experience around that. Amanda (06:48) Definitely, and it's funny you should say that because only yesterday I talked to a new online business called Contenta 360 and they have found a niche now. They are trying to appoint experienced tour guides in every country in the world and people can book an hour's consultation with us so independent travelers can come and you know we'll well not put together an itinerary, which we've always done in the past but we've never been sort of paid for it. We've only been paid if people book us as tour guides later on and not everybody wants to do that, they want to travel around in their hire car so I thought that was a marvellous idea. Jonathan Thomas (07:37) Sounds interesting. I have to I'll link to that in the show notes everybody so How has tourism in Wales changed over the past 25 years? Especially regarding what Americans are interested in? Amanda (07:51) ⁓ well, it's changed a lot of course. mean the obvious change is getting to market with the online travel agents and the difference but thankfully there is still a role for travel agents and tour operators. ⁓ There has definitely been more experimental travelers. It's not so much take them, let them out. click a photo, tell them about it, get back on. They want to get inside the pub or sit down and have a cup of tea with the church parishioners or at the other extreme doing some adventurous tourism from zip lines or whatever. People are drilling deeper into things now. Jonathan Thomas (08:42) Interesting. So. Amanda (08:44) And of course, since COVID, more and more people travelling in couples or groups of four rather than booking on to set itinerary. Jonathan Thomas (08:49) Really? Really? So you're saying that there's been a contraction where people want to travel more in small groups rather than in large groups? Amanda (08:59) Yes, particularly, mean, Wales is quite a specialist market. It's a vicious circle really in that travel agents obviously don't like to disappoint their clients. So they sell what they know. So they'll give the Cotswolds or Stonehenge and they won't recommend Wales because they don't really know it well enough to go in. So... ⁓ we've always had a more discerning client, the sort of people who've been to Britain, well, like your ⁓ listeners, you know, seven times and they say, ⁓ we've been to Yorkshire, we've been to Scotland, you know, we've had a look, we'll have a look at Britain and where haven't we been? Or they've, as you mentioned in your intro, they've decided to link, you know, they're coming back from Ireland through. holly heading through Wales so why don't they add on a few days? And then I find that once people arrive they think there's so much here why did we only allow two days? Jonathan Thomas (10:07) Well, that's the thing is, as ⁓ I, I, I'm going to get, I'm going to get slammed in the comments for this, but we've actually only been to Wales once in our 25 years of travel to Britain, which is unfortunate. We only spent really a day. We were staying in the Cotswolds nearby and it was back when Dr. Who was really big. So I really wanted, I really wanted to go to the Dr. Who experience that was in Cardiff. And so. Amanda (10:27) yeah! Jonathan Thomas (10:33) We went to 10 turn Abbey in the morning on the way, which, we got there so early, it wasn't open, but we just waited until it opened and 10 turn Abbey is amazing. Highly recommend anybody visit it. It's not far from England. So if you don't, if you're intimidated by Wales, you could just pop in and go to 10 turn Abbey if you want. ⁓ but you should go to Wales. We crossed the big bridge, you know, over the straight and then we went to Cardiff and we spent the day in Cardiff and then we came back to the Cotswolds. So. I mean, 10 minutes into this conversation, I already need to go. I already know I need to go to Wales more. Amanda (11:04) I've convinced one person anyway. Jonathan Thomas (11:06) ⁓ So, give us, ⁓ sorry, and forgive me, this isn't a question on the list. Can you give us an overview of Wales from, know, cause it's give us an overview geographically. It's a small country and kind of go from North to South and, what are some of the highlights that, that you kind of recommend people see and do and how they get around? Because I know it's poorly served by rail and buses and can be very rule. Amanda (11:36) Yes, actually an American visitor said to me two weeks ago the difference between the UK and America was obviously that to an American 100 years is a long time but to a Brit 100 miles is a long way and that is a huge difference between our mentality. So I think a lot of overseas visitors look and see how little Wales is and think ⁓ yeah we can go St David's up. up to the town with the long name in a day and yes we are a small country we're a three million people we're about 180 miles north to south but it's absolutely full of river estuaries and mountain ranges and we have got one we've only got one motorway in the whole of wales so it takes a long time to travel through it ⁓ width wise At its widest it's about 90 miles, at its narrowest it's about 40. So it is a tiny country but don't think of it like that. We do have everything. We have an enormous coastline. If you like to walk, we were the first country in the world that you could walk the shape of a nation. We've got a coast path around the outside. We've got off-a-stight long distance. So that could take you quite a long time. We've got everything really. We've got beaches, we've got mountains, we've got waterfalls and rivers, we've got castles. More castles per square mile than anywhere else in the world. A lot of them built by the English. We're glad they did build them. We make lots of money out them these days. yeah, castles, ⁓ steam railways. And again, if you're, can actually use those for traveling. You were asking about traveling through. ⁓ Yes, we've got a reasonable bus service. You you have to do a bit of planning, but they are getting better, the tea, you know, traveling through. Rail, traditionally, it was always easy to get in and out of Wales East to West, right? you know, we didn't get our independence, our parliament until 1990. So all our roads go into England. So one of the first things we did was improve the A470, which is sort of the dragon's back, the road going, starting in Cardiff in the south and going all the way to Llandudno in the north. And it's increasingly better to drive. ⁓ But with rail, You can travel a lot within Wales by rail, but it's not totally joined up. If I need to go to Cardiff from here in North Wales, I have to go into England first. We've got fantastic links with Ireland. So I certainly recommend anybody who's coming back from Ireland to tot on a few days in Wales, because the main ferry to Dublin goes from Holyhead in Wales. Jonathan Thomas (14:31) Ha Amanda (14:47) I used to do a lovely tour with an American group that came in from Dublin. I took them down through Wales. They went out from Fishguard, the port in West Wales, and back and then went round Ireland that way. You can do a circle that way. Or, as you mentioned, people who like Cornwall, who like the beaches and the ethos of Cornwall tend to like Wales too. So that's quite nice to link. Jonathan Thomas (15:18) So, and just for clarification, you're not from Wales. People are probably like, she doesn't have a Welsh accent. Where are you actually? ⁓ Amanda (15:25) Yeah, you want your money back? Not that you've paid me it because I was born in Scotland, okay? I never lived anywhere more than three years until I moved to Wales in the eighties. So I was born in Scotland really, brought up in England, moved to Wales ⁓ after I finished working around London, sucked me in like it does everybody. ⁓ And then you decide to escape. So no, I'm not from Wales. I always say I'm British because I'm Scottish, my husband was English, my children were Welsh and my daughter's just married an Irishman, so how British can you get? Jonathan Thomas (16:07) Polyglot, right? ⁓ Well, then in my book, you're Welsh enough. Amanda (16:09) Yeah. Yes, I've had to learn Welsh. My kids are completely fluent because they did it right from nursery school and of course they laugh but then a mother's job is to be laughed at by her kids and I do my best. I've been learning it for 30 years so I get by. Jonathan Thomas (16:31) So, before Americans had ever been to Wales, how would you describe what makes Wales different compared to England or Scotland? Amanda (16:41) Right, I think I'm sure you already know this Jonathan, but if you wanted to upset a Scotsman you'd say something like, Scotland's not a real country is it? Guaranteed to get you a Glasgow kiss, which is a headbutt. If you want to upset a Welshman you'd say something like, what's the point of Welsh, it's a dead language. If Scotland is politically independent because they were never conquered like Wales, Jonathan Thomas (16:55) Yeah. Fuck. Amanda (17:10) They always had their own laws and things. We are incredibly culturally independent. We had books written in Welsh before anything was written in Anglo-Saxon, let alone English, and a long rich tradition of poetry and song. So culturally, ⁓ that's the difference, I think. Jonathan Thomas (17:34) Interesting. So. Do you, forgive me again, this isn't on the list of questions. How familiar are you with Welsh history? Can you kind of give an overview of Wales's relationship with England and the rest of Britain? Because it goes back 800 years, and how is the relationship now different than it used to be? Amanda (18:01) Well, it's like any nation, your relationship with your neighbors changes. ⁓ Yes, ⁓ as I mentioned, ⁓ well, I'd say the English conquered Wales. Edward I was a Norman King. The language of court was French, but it's a better story, isn't it? England against Wales. ⁓ So we were England's first colony, really, I suppose. They got the taste for it then and went around the world, as you Americans know. Jonathan Thomas (18:06) Bye! Amanda (18:31) So for many, many, many years, if you think about our wonderful Welsh dragon and how cool is it to have a dragon on your flag when everybody else has got crosses? That is not our, we have a cross, the St David's cross, but it is not on the Union flag because after Wales was conquered, a law was passed to say henceforth Wales is England. but nobody told us, we went on being Welsh secretly like we could have. So until 1990, when we got our own Welsh assembly, and since then we've had a large degree of internal governance really, which has made, I mean, we do, well, you can never generalise about people, but... I think generally most Welsh are very happy now with our political relationship with the UK. We get 6 % if Keir Starmer tomorrow says I'm going to give the health service a billion, not that he would, but if he did, then we get 6 % of that because we've got 6 % of the population, but we don't have to spend it on the health service. If we decide to give it to farmers or something, we can. that's the sort of, but we do not generate 6 % of the wealth. thankfully London and the South East make it. that's the sort of political come economic relationship with us. And I think as long as the English acknowledge that we have a very rich culture, particularly in the language, because that's what gets Welsh people upset is every time that their language is denigrated when it's a real living. language. People live their whole lives through the medium of Welsh. However, having said that, language can divide as much. South Wales and some of the industrial areas, obviously feel passionately Welsh, but a lot of them don't speak Welsh. So we're very good at fighting all us Celtic nations within ourselves, you know, and are lying with the English against another part. Jonathan Thomas (20:54) dear. Well, well, and so would you say that I don't want to route? ⁓ I don't want to venture too far into the political, but that there's not as big a call for independence in Wales as there is in Scotland. Amanda (20:55) I'm probably confusing you more than ever now. I'm going off. Correct. I think we're a bit like, you know that the oldest child fights for the right to stay out till 10 o'clock and by the time the third child comes along, nobody cares. We let Scotland do all the fighting and then we say, you gave them a parliament, can we have one too? So actually, I mean, I'm making a bit of a joke of it, but it is a bit like. Jonathan Thomas (21:34) Well, and architecturally, would argue your parliament is much prettier looking than the Scottish one. Amanda (21:40) I know. Again, it's quite useful being a new nation, ⁓ you know, being able to build brand new institutions like our lovely, when you were in Cardiff, you saw the Millennium Centre, the lovely National Theatre Opera House. It sums Wales as a nation up, not just the materials it's made of, but it's a little bit quirky. We're not stylish like the Italians, but we are. We are quirky as our sort of said, yeah. Jonathan Thomas (22:14) So forgive me, this is question that's not on the list, but I don't know why. I made a whole list of questions about Wales and I didn't put any questions about Gavin and Stacey. Do you see a lot of Americans wanting to see the places where Gavin and Stacey was filmed? Amanda (22:30) yes, I mean it's like everywhere. Film tourism is very popular and it's been dead exciting actually up here in San Antonio where I am because where they were filming the House of the Dragons, the last few series have been filmed up here on our beaches, in our mountains and a whole burnt village by a dragon. so film tourism is quite big and programmes and yes. I'm so old, on my commentary fairly recently, I said, look at those green fields, they're so lush. And somebody said, I love it when you Welsh say that. We don't say it up here in North Wales, but they definitely say it in Barry. Jonathan Thomas (23:15) So what are some must-see destinations in Wales that Americans often overlook in favor of England? So what are some things they should see? Amanda (23:25) Well, I think the big advantage is we aren't honeypot. So even if there's a cruise ship in or something, you know, you don't have the overcrowding of York or Bath or something like that. ⁓ Right. If I was putting together an itinerary for Americans who hadn't been to Wales before, I'd say definitely include one of our castles, because these aren't just ruined chunks, you know, or baronial Victorian businessmen's houses, they are real medieval castles. So a castle is a must. You know, if you're down south, Chepstow or Cofilly or Pembroke and up in the north, Canarvon or Conwy. And I'd ride on a steam train. And I'd also visit something ex-industrial history. because we were the first industrialized nation in the world. So, you know, in Cardiff, you can go down a coal mine with a miner or in the north, you can watch how slaters split, you know, our original. some medieval history, some castles and landscape will blow you away. Honestly, we've got everything that Scotland's got as far as mountains, but it's more compact. And if it does rain, you haven't got ages to drive to find something else to do. You can pop into a castle or whatever. ⁓ landscape and beaches. I mean, it depends what you like, whether you're into history or general touring. Jonathan Thomas (25:16) So many of your clients will combine Wales with the West Country or the Lake District. So what's the ideal itinerary for somebody who also wants to experience a bit of Wales and a bit of English countryside? Amanda (25:32) I would certainly do a tour of the mountains of Rarri, which like all over the world now, we're trying to use native names for places, which is Snodonia. A nice tour of the mountains, maybe ride the Rackham Pinyon railway up to the stop of Irwithfer, Mount Snowdon. You see from there, we're only a couple of hours. into Chester and Liverpool and then up to the Lake District. So you'd certainly need to do a couple of days in North Wales, castles, railways, mountains and combine it then with going up to the Lake District or as you were saying with the Cornwall and the West Country, know, come in via, if you haven't done them before, Stonehenge or Bath from the south and go across to the wonderfully evocative, you know, St. David's Cathedral, Tembe, cute little town, ⁓ and of course Cardiff. mean, it's up there with other European capital cities now as far as architecture and castles. Jonathan Thomas (26:54) So Wales has such a rich Celtic heritage. Can you kind of explain what that means and how do you bring that history alive for visitors who may be seeking it out? Amanda (27:08) is a question right to my heart Jonathan because like in the early days like all gold marketeers visit Wales ask people why did you come to Wales what did you expect and then when they finished they said how did it meet your expectations and everyone the landscape blew them away the people were friendlier than they expected the food was better there was just one thing they were disappointed in 20 years ago And that was, they expected it to be a land of mystery and legends, right? Now as a tour guide, you you can taste the food, you can meet the people, but you don't know the legends unless someone tells you to them. I mean, if you go to Ireland, you're leprechaun to death in the pub if you're not careful. But here, the Welsh have always been a little bit more reserved ⁓ about explaining how important mythology, symbolism and that is. So that is the role of a good tour guide. ⁓ You know, do find out why we have a dragon on our flag. You know, everything like that has got rich, rich stories behind it. Jonathan Thomas (28:24) So ⁓ what role does the Welsh language play in the average tourist experience and how do Americans usually react when they hear proper Welsh being spoken? Because it's very different to the ear than many other languages. Amanda (28:42) Yes, I obviously, I cover a bit about how Welsh got there, because of course, the whole of the British Isles spoke Celtic originally. mean, Dover, Welsh for water is Dúr. There's lots of River Avon's. So you can see the Welsh for river is Avon, you know, and then it got squashed to the west and the language divided and became Gaelic, Gaelic, Ireland, Scotland, and then Welsh, Cornish and Breton in the south. ⁓ And it depends where you are in Wales, but where I am in North West Wales, ⁓ there are communities where 90 % of people speak Welsh as a first language. And that comes as a big shock to Americans, you know, to go in the grocery store, even to some English people, they think the Welsh are speaking it just to be awkward. They don't realize that that is the language your mother sang the nursery rhymes in and that you communicate in. So... ⁓ We certainly, as well as just as you'd abroad try some native dishes, we make sure people know a little bit about the language. And of course, everybody wants to go to Llanfairpwll Gwengyllgog Erog Wyrndrobwll Llanseleogogogogh to photograph the station sign. Jonathan Thomas (30:03) I applaud you for managing to get that all out in casual conversation. Now you mentioned food. what are some particularly Welsh culinary experiences that American visitors shouldn't miss? What are Welsh staples that we must have? Amanda (30:24) Well, we were quite a poor society, so the main dishes are ⁓ a bit like the other Celtic nations, really. You know, a sort of ⁓ stew of beef or lamb with lots of root vegetables, lobskouse, we call it. Actually, it came in from Liverpool. That's why they're called scousers in English. It's a Norwegian stew. We have a national vegetable. Not many countries have a national vegetable. The leek is our national vegetable. If you join a Welsh regiment, you have to eat a raw leek on St David's Day, our patron saint's day. I don't know why soldiers are so cruel. We have a lot of nice tea. Like our equivalent of scones are Welsh cakes. So it's a rubbed in mixture like scones, but there's no raising agent. It's got spices and... dried fruit and they're done on a griddle. Barra bryth, speckled bread, which every housewife has her own recipe from rich fruit cake to bread with fruit in it. But you soak the dried fruit in cold tea, that's the secret. So it's a nice tea bread, a bit like balm cake. mean, again, Scotland and Yorkshire, lot of peasant societies in the past. So those are specialities. But the very best restaurants now, of course, do a lot of fusion using really good Welsh ingredients and maybe putting a more modern spin on them. Lava bread, of course, is common, which is seaweed. So, we've got some really good food. And of course, drink. We are hoping. to do to the Scottish whiskey industry, what California did to the French wine industry, because we've got the same wonderful peaty water, but unlike poor Scotland who have to stick to traditional stills and methods, we've been able to use some new Faraday stills with copper, making a much purer spirit. So if you like whiskey and you've never tasted Welsh whiskey, do so. Jonathan Thomas (32:47) So what's the preferred tea in Wales? Amanda (32:52) Welsh tea. So yes you can, you can get Welsh brew tea but we certainly like our traditional tea. In fact I say to my clients I'll do anything you like but during the day I have to have a cup of tea. I'm an English or a British lady of a certain age and I don't function unless I've got a cup of tea. Jonathan Thomas (33:15) Well, I mean, you can't have a wonderful day out in the British Isles without stopping for tea at least twice. Amanda (33:21) Yes. Jonathan Thomas (33:23) So Wales has incredible castles and historic sites. Which ones have you found resonate the most with American visitors? Amanda (33:36) Generally, either, I mean, our castles really do blow them away, some of the Edwardian castles, because if people have been to Ireland and seen fairly ruined ones or to Scotland to see what are really 19th century, baronial ones, they really do blow people away. Because, I mean, they're World Heritage sites for a reason, nothing like them had ever been built before. before Edward in the 1280s built his castles. Castles were basically a grassy hump with a tower and there are lots and lots of innovations and yet they weren't changed. Like Windsor Castle that's had bedrooms and bathrooms and things added on. Because Wales wasn't important once it was conquered, these castles are more or less as they were 800 years ago. So that's lovely people. You just evoke history walking in those. And the other extreme I found that people really, really appreciate is incredible rural tiny churches to go in a building that's had people worshipping in it since the 14th century and you've had to cross a field to get to because our pattern of settlement was isolated farms. So that's very evocative for people. It blows them away really. Jonathan Thomas (35:01) Interesting. So what's the best time of year you encourage Americans to visit Wales? Amanda (35:08) you're not going to have a conversation about whether we're the Brit, are you? Go on. Jonathan Thomas (35:13) That will be the rest of podcast. Amanda (35:15) No, the reason we can talk about the weather is I had an American say to me, what is the weather going to be today? I've had minimum and maximum temperatures and percentage chances of rain. So, but to answer a little more seriously, and you never can predict the British weather, our weather is made out in the Atlantic Ocean. And so when the sea and with little islands squashed between a huge landmass of continental Europe and a big ocean. So when the temperatures are similar, you get a lot less depressions and fronts. And of course, water heats up and cools down slower than land. So spring and autumn generally anywhere in the west of Britain, and that includes Wales, of course, May, June, September are better than July and August. where we tend to get a lot more downpours and that sort of thing. Jonathan Thomas (36:17) Interesting. So you heard it, bumper seasons everybody. Amanda (36:21) Yeah, now it's definitely bumper season and also as the schools aren't there you'll unless you particularly want things for children it'll be a lot quieter in that. Jonathan Thomas (36:32) Yeah, we always mourn it. Amanda (36:33) I I have my own holiday in August because the sort of people that employ tour guides like to avoid peak family season. Jonathan Thomas (36:42) Yeah, we like to warn people avoid avoid Britain on half term look up the half term dates on the British government website before you book your trip and also when ⁓ the six-week break between school years happens because that's when the Brits will be out enjoying their tourist attractions and Yeah So what surprises American visitors most when they visit Wales for the first time? Amanda (37:00) and they're dogs. ⁓ Honestly, the landscape blows them away. I think a lot of people particularly were brought up on how green was my valley and Wales, because there are no coal mines left in Wales at all now. You know, people expect it to be industrial and it isn't at all. In fact, for our steam trains, we import Ukrainian coal because we haven't got any coal. So, yeah. the landscape, the mountains, the waterfalls, the rivers, definitely people are expected. And also people find people very friendly because we're not over touristy. They haven't had Americans coming into their pub nonstop. People love to sit down and have a chat and ⁓ are genuinely interested in people from overseas because An interesting statistic is only 6 % of our visitors are from overseas. Whereas somewhere like Ireland it's 30 % or I don't know what the Cotswolds is but we are a sort of specialist. So that surprises people. Jonathan Thomas (38:16) and I'll We gotta up those numbers. So ⁓ what are some common misconceptions Americans have about Wales that you want to debunk? Amanda (38:30) Yeah, I want you to. I think I've already covered the fact that people think because it's small that they can travel through it fast. They're totally, they are surprised about the distances and the fact that Welsh is a living language ⁓ and not a dead language, you know, with the signs. ⁓ I wouldn't say so much misconceptions as such, because most of the visitors I get have read quite a lot beforehand and know. They're surprised that the Prince of Wales has anything to do with Wales, You know, I used to have people say, Diana's your princess. you know, again, that's historical. reason and I'm sure you haven't got time for the legend here but if people look it up well it's not a legend. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (39:47) about occupation and conquering. Amanda (39:50) Yeah, yeah, but conquering means we've got all these lovely castles. Jonathan Thomas (39:57) It was it was England as it always has been injecting cash into the Welsh economy. It started 800 years ago, Amanda (40:04) Yeah, yeah. I mean, I went last week to my local town Conway Honey Fair and we've been having that on the 13th of September for 800 years because Edward I passed the law to say you can't trade unless you do it in one of my towns. And yeah, we've been going on doing it ever since. So there we are. Jonathan Thomas (40:26) So what are some emerging destinations or experiences in Wales that you guys are excited to share with future American visitors? Any big festivals or any special places or special things happening? Amanda (40:44) There's not so much lots of the new things happening, but people are discovering things that have been going on. Like I've said how important culture is to the Welsh. We do have both the international ice stead vod, which is a and the national ice stead vod, which has been going on again for hundreds of years, but has never been a tourist attraction. The other festivals. But it's well worth going to learn about Welsh music right back from ancient poetry methods up to modern pop music. And the Hay Festival's getting quite a reputation internationally now. So festivals certainly are on that way. People are surprised by the quality, say, of the painting. We've got some of the museums in Cardiff, because of the wealth that came from coal when it was incredibly rich town. You know, we've got the greatest collection of impressionist paintings outside of Paris there. People are surprised by these sort of facts. We have a developing adventure tourism. industry now. lot of our old industrial sites have been repurposed so should you want to go head first at 90 miles an hour across a disused slate quarry we've got the fastest zip line in the northern hemisphere. You can bounce in an old mine on huge trampolines so there's lots and lots of mountain biking, hiking, we have a very interesting A unique sport invented in Wales is coasteering, where basically, because we have these big tides, you know, they're about 20 foot at the moment, you climb horizontally along the cliff wearing wetsuits and buoyancy aids between the high tide and the low tide area, jumping into streams. So adventure tourism is certainly something that's growing. Jonathan Thomas (43:03) So for my last question, for Angle Topia's listeners who might be planning their first trip to Wales, what would be your number one piece of device to make the most of their visit? Amanda (43:16) Allow, stay longer than you think because yes, we haven't got dramatic big hitters. You we haven't got the likes of Niagara Falls, but we've got lots of incredibly lovely little falls. You need time to understand Wales a bit, to sit down with locals, to stay. It's particularly good actually. We don't have... Jonathan Thomas (43:19) Haha. Amanda (43:45) lots of huge group hotels because it's chicken and egg really until people come they don't build them but what we have got is some wonderful smaller country house hotels for smaller parties and groups smaller groups going through the country for instance near me you can stay at Plastinas which has a top restaurant and it was Lord Snowden's house so in the living room you'll find the photo albums of Princess Margaret and his wedding and that type of thing. So there's lots and lots of these sort of individual that need a bit of time. So don't say I'll allow two days for Wales, try and allow four and or if you've only got two days spend it in one region. Don't try and do Cardiff, St David's and up north all in one day because You'll spend all your time driving and not really getting out and seeing and experiencing the landscape and the people. Jonathan Thomas (44:50) Yeah, well, you understand driving is a a is a pastime for us. We we want to spend as much time in the car as possible. At least those of us from the Midwest. mean, it's. ⁓ Amanda (45:01) Well, you're probably true because that's where I was in America. I couldn't believe we drove 100 miles for dinner. My family would have packed for three days to go 100 miles. Jonathan Thomas (45:13) Yeah, I live 80 miles from Chicago and we go there for dinner and come home. We don't think anything about it. It only takes an hour. mean, it's fine. Oh, we've learned long ago, we call it British miles that, you know, if anywhere you want to go is going to take twice as long as you think because Amanda (45:25) Well, don't do that in Wales. Jonathan Thomas (45:41) If it says 40 miles in the US, if it's 40 miles, it's 40 minutes in England or in Britain. If it's 40 miles, it's probably two hours away. exactly. Amanda (45:51) there'll be pretty miles and the landscape will change dramatically you know even within Wales because the geology is so different then the stone houses look different you know the the hills go from rounded sandstone to jagged volcanic so yeah. Jonathan Thomas (46:11) Well, now I think I have to put Wales on my next itinerary when we come to England or come to Britain because we have undercut. Amanda (46:19) that's the other thing. Don't say England when you mean Britain to Welsh people. Jonathan Thomas (46:25) So, well, thank you for appearing on the Anglotopia podcast. If you enjoyed the Anglotopia podcast, please like, subscribe, or leave a comment. Please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia Club for early access to new episodes and help support independent long form writing about British history, culture, and travel. Thank you again, Amanda. Amanda (46:46) Pleasure. Croissant. Jonathan Thomas (46:49) I love it. Amanda (46:50) Yeah.