Jonathan Thomas (00:13) Your host Jonathan here popping in before the actual podcast begins to let you know that I need to give you some context for the interview for this podcast. I, for those who don't follow the Friends of Anglotopia Club, am planning on walking the Hadrian's Wall path next summer. The 84 mile coast to coast trail that, that takes you along the path of the ancient Roman wall. And ⁓ so in the research for that, I got in touch with Macs Adventures based on the recommendation of some followers, and they have kindly provided one of their expert guides on Hadrian's Wall for me to interrogate. The interview is great, tons of great information about the wall, but I wanted to do a quick introduction before because things have slightly changed a little bit since I recorded this last month. We... have decided, ⁓ we do calendars every year as a fundraiser for Anglotopia's operations. And, ⁓ because I'm going to do the Hadrian's wall walk next year and actually need to start planning it and booking it now, ⁓ based on some of the information you'll find in the interview that it's the hotels next year can fill up the year before. So I need to start planning and booking and getting things on the calendar now, which is Usually it's which is a little different than how we normally plan things as much further in advance than we normally plan things here at Anglotopia and so ⁓ As part of our calendar fundraiser this year, we're gonna do a special Hadrian's wall themed calendar. We are only printing 100 of these and They're they're selling for a special price. There's only 100 and we're selling these as sole fundraiser for this walk next summer. So all the funds minus the printing costs from this calendar are gonna go to paying for the walk next summer so that I can get it booked and everything. And so we've done the math and we sell all 100 of them, which I'm hopeful we'll sell 100 because we normally sell out on our calendars. Then I can make the trip next summer happen. So. If you enjoy this podcast about learning about the Hadrian's Wall walk and want to help make sure that I get out of my office and go on that wall and walk the 84 miles, then please buy the special edition Anglotopia Hadrian's Wall calendar. There are no actual pictures of Hadrian's Wall in the calendar because I haven't been there yet. So the pictures are all pictures of places I've been to in Northern England that are kind of near Hadrian's Wall. So. You can see on the back here, there are lots of places in the Lake District and in Yorkshire, and it was a lot of fun picking out these pictures. So it's kind of like, you could think of it as a Northern England special edition calendar. So these are for sale in the Anglotopia store. The link will be in the show notes. And if you could please help me sell all of these, I can walk that wall. we also, ⁓ we're also launching sales of our regular calendars as well. the London calendar and the Anglotopia calendar. Links for those will also be in the show notes. We have more than 100 of these because we normally sell more. So if you want to make sure I go on this walk, please buy the calendar. So thank you. Jonathan Thomas (03:44) Welcome back to the Anglotopia podcast. The podcast are people who love British travel, history, and culture. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today we're lacing up our hiking boots and stepping back nearly 2000 years to walk virtually one of Britain's most iconic ancient monuments. My guest is Emily Graver, an adventure operations specialist at Macs Adventures. where she's been crafting unforgettable self-guided walking and cycling holidays for over three years. Emily is based in Glasgow and has become something of an expert on Britain's greatest trails from the windswept Outer Hebrides to the rugged Pembrokeshire Coast Path. But today, we're focusing on the walk that cuts right across Northern England like a stone ribbon through history, Hadrian's Wall. Emily has not only walked the full 84 mile route herself, but has helped train her entire team on this remarkable journey that takes you from Wall's End in the East to Bowness on Solway in the West. Built by Romans in AD 122, Hadrian's Wall marks the northernmost frontier of an empire that stretched from Scotland to the Sahara. Today, it's the UNESCO World Heritage Site and one of England's most popular long-distance walks. But walking it isn't just about putting one foot in front of the other. It requires careful planning. the right preparation and insider knowledge that only comes from experience. And as someone who is planning to tackle this legendary walk next summer, I couldn't think of a better person to share the secrets of successfully walking Hadrian's Wall. We'll cover everything from logistics and fitness preparation to the best sections for first timers, what to pack, and those hidden gems that only experts know about. Welcome, Emily. Thank you. well, thank you for being on the podcast. Emily (05:23) Hello, excited to be here, my first podcast. Jonathan Thomas (05:30) Hopefully it will be fun. Emily (05:31) Thank Jonathan Thomas (05:33) So first, give us an overview of the Hadrian's Wall route. Where is it? What's the climate like? What's the history like? What can people who want to walk this expect? Emily (05:45) Okay, so I walked this a couple of years ago now and I really, really enjoyed it. It's right in the north of England. It borders Scotland. So you've got a real mix of history here. That's one of the things, because I'm such a history nerd, is the thing I really loved about it is you've got not only the Roman history of the war, but you've also got the history of Anglo-Scottish conflicts. You've got border reavers it basically spans like 2000 years of history, all on this one wall, like you just can't quite comprehend it. So it goes from in the east Newcastle and then it stretches all across the right to the other side of the coast in Bowness on the Solway. You've got two like contrasting kind of geographical land masses. Yeah. It's really good. I will say the weather is unpredictable. You need to pack for all seasons, but that's just, that's British weather. And we love talking about the weather. That's like our passion. Jonathan Thomas (06:44) You Yep. So for people who've never done a walk like this before, what's the biggest mistake first time Hadrian's Wall Walkers kind of make when they're planning their trips and how can people... Emily (07:05) I would say the biggest mistake people make is they underestimate the level of walking that's involved. You are walking like 15 to 30 kilometres a day. It's also very hilly. There's a lot of ascent and descent. So it's not like big mountains, but it's just constant rolling hills. There's a lot of farmland. There's also a lot of cows. I'm not the biggest fan of cows, but... ⁓ I don't want to fit you off. ⁓ No, honestly, they're actually fine, like, because they're so used to seeing people. They just stay away. yeah, yeah, that's what people definitely underestimate. Jonathan Thomas (07:33) I feel like there's a story there. Yeah, and I know like I walk, I try to walk every day. don't get that, I a try, a keyword try there. But I only walk a few miles a day, but that's, this is a whole different scale of walking. I mean, it is, I think the, if you follow the eight or nine day ⁓ plan, there's at most like 15 miles of walking in a day, which is a lot of walking, especially up and down hill. Emily (08:12) Mm-hmm. It is a lot and I think that's it's so good to get practicing now because if you've got like a whole year, that's more than enough time to work up to it. But I would also really recommend like practicing, getting used to walking up hills, not just like flat land and just really make sure you've got the right kind of boots for it. I always think it's best to pack like a pair of trainers and a pair of like proper hiking boots just because you might be on a little bit of tarmac. or asphalt surface and then that's more suited for like trainers ⁓ because hiking boots can be quite hard on the feet if you're walking on asphalt so it's good to also mix that up as well just because yeah you will be walking on different types of paths it's not just like grass. Jonathan Thomas (09:09) I see that's a great tip right there. I already get an insider tip because if you go east to, or if you go west to east and you're in Bowness on Solway, like the first 10 miles is an asphalt path or wrong road. So you don't want to wear hiking boots on. Emily (09:11) and Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-mm-mm. No, no, no. We need the trainers. For sure. Jonathan Thomas (09:29) So how far in advance so so let me let me back up a little bit max adventure you guys You guys plan the logistics for walkers who want to kind of have everything handled for them So let's say if I wanted to do the walk in ten days You guys will give me all the route guidance you will book my hotels and you will move my luggage from place to place and sort of be on call if anything comes up that, am I right? Emily (09:59) Yeah, exactly. That's absolutely it. So we offer like a range of itineraries just because we know like everyone's fitness levels are different. So if you have only got five days and you want to try and do the whole thing, but we've got an itinerary, think like our shortest is like a six day itinerary, it will be longer walking days. But if you've got the fitness levels to suit it up, that will work for you. If you've only got a few days and you just want to see the highlights, we've got an itinerary for that. If you ⁓ want to do the whole thing, but really take your time for it. We've got like a nine day itinerary where it spreads the walking. It's not as intense. We will book all your accommodations. We've got a really useful app that will tell you exactly where to walk. You literally just have to follow the dot and it like vibrates. If you go off the path, it's so useful. It also has like dinner recommendations, places to stop, sites to see. There are so many sites on the Haydn's wall. honestly, there's a whole list. I was trying to crown them all in because there's like at least one thing to see every single day. Yeah, so we also have fuel luggage. Yeah, we do it all pretty much. Jonathan Thomas (11:15) Yeah, and that's something I'm looking forward to a lot is not only am I going to do the walking, there's a lot to see and do along the way. And if you're just focused on walking, you're going to completely miss it. And so I think I'm going to lean towards the leisurely, like nine, 10 day version, just because there's going to be so much I want to see. So speaking of that, how far advanced do you recommend someone book their walk, especially if they want to do it in the summer months? Actually, what's recommended you do in the summer months? Emily (11:30) Thank you. Jonathan Thomas (11:44) So like, should I be booking it now? Emily (11:46) Yeah, like May in September, it's crazy. May is booking up a lot for people, very keen people that are ready to go on holiday for next May. It books up really, really quickly. So I'd really recommend if you've got like, if you want to. So we book a lot of accommodations, but some of them are more on the path than others because we just have to, we have to work, go where the availability is. help you, like we'll book taxis for you so you can stay in these other places. We'll arrange transfers for you to get there. But if you would prefer to like stay on the room, book ahead now and we will be able to get you those priority. Or if you've got like preferences of where you want to stay or the style of place you want to stay, if you book ahead now, we can, we will be able to get that for you rather than like a few months down the line. I will say that I did it in April. and I really lucked out with the weather. I got sunburn on just one half of my face because of the direction of the sun and I still had a great time but the weather is so unpredictable that's why we always say May and September is the best time because you're pretty much guaranteed good weather. Jonathan Thomas (13:01) ⁓ unfortunately, I think I'm going to be June, July. ⁓ Emily (13:05) Do you need to lie off? Yeah, you should be fine. Jonathan Thomas (13:08) Yeah, our kids get out of school in June and we're gonna go on a family trip to the UK. Hopefully this hasn't been booked yet, but we're planning to bring the family over for a couple weeks. And then they're gonna go home and then I'm gonna stay in England and I'm gonna go do this walk. So it'll probably be late June, early July. And I was kind of watching the weather this summer to kind of see what I was gonna expect. And it looks like... Emily (13:12) I'm Mm-hmm. you're gonna do the work. Mm-hmm. Jonathan Thomas (13:36) It will be moderately cool and occasionally wet. So it looks like the weather will. Emily (13:39) Is someone? Yeah, and that's all you can ask for. And the good thing is like, if you're walking then there's going to be quite a few people on the trail. And that's exactly if you're looking for camaraderie and like a shared experience, which I know I am and I know a lot of other hikers are looking for. That's exactly what you're going to find on the Hay James wall. It's like such a welcoming community kind of atmosphere because the accommodations are there just for walkers. They know what you're about. They enjoy having walkers there. And you just get to meet other people. Jonathan Thomas (14:16) So let's talk about fitness. So what's the ideal fitness level needed for this full 84 mile route? And like you said, how should somebody prepare physically? Is there anything other than just walking a lot that they should do? Emily (14:19) Okay. I think so. think it is all just about getting the practice in. I'd say the ideal fitness level is like if you can go a day walking 10 miles, then you should be fine. You don't have to walk like 10 miles every single day, but if you can try and walk like 10 miles one day on a weekend, you should be fine to do it by the next year. Jonathan Thomas (14:51) Okay. I think I can manage it. I'm lucky here, where I live here in Indiana, we live near the National Park. So there are ample trails that if I really want to add the distance, can, I think there's one, I can get the distance. I think there's one 18 mile trail. I could do, if I could do that in a day, I think I could, I can manage it. So, all right, now let's move on to kind of the route. Emily (15:01) Mm-hmm. You can get them in. Yeah, if you did that you'd be fine, yeah. Jonathan Thomas (15:20) I, the most important question I have is because I, the thing I do when I start planning something like this is I buy every guidebook about it and I've got like three or four books now on the route and some of the books say take the eastern route and some of the books say take the western route. So what would you pick or what would you recommend and what are kind of the pros and cons of each direction? Emily (15:28) 7 It really does depend on what you're looking for because I personally did the I did the East to West and I prefer it because you're going from like quite a busy city, Newcastle, and then you're slowly walking towards like ⁓ really peaceful areas. So by the time you get to Bowness on Solway, you walk walking through, think it's like a nature reserve is Jonathan Thomas (15:52) Okay. Emily (16:11) little villages and hamlets and I really like walking from the busyness to the quietness. You're also following the route that the wall was originally built by the Romans. They started in Newcastle and walked their way across. So it feels like you're walking through time, which I also quite like. It's also the way that it was originally set up when the when the path was originally designed is to be walked east-west. the only problem is you are walking against the wind. So if you're looking for a slightly easier experience, they recommend walking west-east. You're walking with the wind. It's also slightly downhill. Even like the whole thing's hilly, but it's like a slow gradient downwind. if you're walking east-west, it's a slight uphill. Jonathan Thomas (17:07) Yeah, and that's where I'm kind of stuck is I'm like, well, I like the idea of walking out of the city into the countryside because that's such a, it has to be such a unique experience because, know, where I live just outside of Chicago and, you know, we have Chicago is a big city, but you go 10 miles, you know, west of Chicago and it's open fields for hundreds of miles. So I imagine that must be a really weird experience. So I kind of want to have that. But also, like you said, people said that If you do the other way, you have the prevailing winds against you, the sun is kind of at your back, ⁓ the weather is at your back. Whereas if you go the other way, you're kind of walking into it. So it's a hard choice to make. Emily (17:41) No more. It really is, but also don't you kind of want to walk in the footsteps of the Roman soldiers? Jonathan Thomas (17:57) Yeah, that's kind of my thing is I do want to walk into history, right? I want the experience and like I would kind of wish the Cicerone book, which is my favorite guidebook about the route, actually was the east to west route because they do cover the east to west route in the book, but like it's the secondary route. so I like wish they gave preference to the other way. Anyway, I didn't write the book, so. Emily (18:01) Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (18:26) So you've helped train the Macs Adventures team on Hadrian's Wall. What are some of the most challenging sections that people may underestimate? Like you said, there are some hilly parts. Where in the geography are these? Emily (18:36) Bye! So the most challenging section is between a cute little village called Once Brood and the Hayton Gate turn off. It's very, very hilly. It's also got some of the best sections of the wall and it can be up to 30 kilometres because there's only like a couple of accommodations in Hayton Gate. It's actually in the village called Lanarkost which is like next to Hayton Gate. ⁓ But we usually have to book people into Brampton, so that does add three miles onto the walking day. So you are looking at 18 miles total in that one section. It's a lot. It's a lot. But I will say it is worth it because, first of all, Lanarkost has a priory, room into priory that's really, really interesting. Jonathan Thomas (19:21) That's a lot. That's a lot. Do you love a ruin? Emily (19:35) Exactly. Edward III of the kids who was called the hammer of the Scots. He went to Scotland a lot, the borders to try and get more land from the Scottish borders. He actually died there. So, yeah, it's just interesting if you like history. And then you can just get a taxi. Otherwise, yeah, you're just going to have to walk it. There's nowhere around it. Jonathan Thomas (19:59) I have a feeling I'm going to have a taxi on speed dial. Emily (20:01) Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (20:02) Well, I should say to people who want to visit Hadrian's Wall and don't have the ambition to do this walk, is a road, there's a bus route that pretty much follows the route of the wall where you can get off at various spots and see it and get back on the bus and not have to do any walking. It's well serviced by taxis and then at each end are major railway stations. So it's easy to get to Hadrian's Wall if you want to see the wall and Emily (20:12) Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (20:29) experience a little bit of that urban history and if you don't have the ambition to walk it. But that kind of leads into my next question is, let's say someone only has four or five days and they could do the whole walk in that amount of time if they were very, very fit. But if they don't have the time to do the whole walk, which sections of the walk would you recommend they kind of prioritize to? Emily (20:47) Mm-hmm. Jonathan Thomas (20:55) to just get that walk experience and to see some of the landscape in the wall. Emily (21:00) Well, this is an itinerary we actually offer. It's the best of Hadrian's Hall itinerary and it's only about four or five days. On this itinerary, you actually get to stay in Corbridge, which isn't part of the official Hadrian's Hall pathway, but Corbridge is the site of the old Roman town. So you've got the current town of Corbridge and then just, I think it's like a mile outside of that, you've got this Roman town that you can visit. and then the walk will take you from Corbridge to Carlisle to Brampton and it covers the best bits of the walk in about four or five days. Jonathan Thomas (21:43) Okay, well, that's good to know. But I gotta do it all. ⁓ So one of the things I'm curious about, because I like to know the details of things, even if it's not relevant, but I like to know the details. So how does Macs Adventures handle the luggage transfer logistics? Like what should a walker pack in their day bag versus what their luggage being transported has? Emily (22:08) So we work with a local luggage company who specialise in walking, transferring like walking hikers' luggages. So they transfer luggage along the Hadrian's wall path, shout out to Mark. I feel like I talk to him a lot, he's a lovely guy. But yeah, so he really helps us out. They've got like a proper van that they can just move from. location to location, you just need to drop your bags off by 9am and there's a weight limit. I'm not sure what the current weight limit is, be either 18 or 20 kilograms. ⁓ He can also store your luggage for you. He can ⁓ hold it back and you can add additional bags like we're able to like be quite flexible and put whatever you need with him ⁓ and he's usually pretty happy to do it, so that's what we would do. I would advise for a day pack, snacks. I need snacks when I'm walking, yeah. Definitely pack the snacks. And then also waterproofs, as I've said. The weather be changing, like you need to your rain jacket, your waterproof trousers. Jonathan Thomas (23:14) Yeah, you're burning a lot of calories. Emily (23:27) If you've got a waterproof cover that you can put on your day pack as well ⁓ with an elasticated band. Yeah, and also just make sure you've got plenty of water. Jonathan Thomas (23:38) That's a good question about water. ⁓ Is it pretty easy to use a refillable bottle of water along the route or do recommend people buy bottles of water? Emily (23:49) Yeah, refillable will be absolutely fine. Like our tap water is completely safe to drink. If you pop into a cafe, they usually happy to fill it up for you. There's also often like, they like the water points like on the roof or like a tap that you can use. If it's unsafe water, it will also have a big sign that says do not drink. Yeah, so don't I don't usually fill up in like public toilets, that's not safe. But ⁓ yeah, everywhere else. Jonathan Thomas (24:06) Okay. Yeah. Is there enough places to stop and get a cup of tea along the way? Emily (24:24) So the app will tell you where to stop and where not to stop. I think for most of the days it's pretty good. There might be like the odd day where there isn't anything and then you just need to make sure that you've packed enough food and drink. But also a lot of the accommodations we work with are happy to provide a packed lunch for a small fee and still be able to organise your lunch for you if there's not a cafe on the way. Jonathan Thomas (24:26) All right. Yeah, because I imagine you'll want to walk for a few hours in the morning, stop for lunch, and then rest up, use the bathroom, drink some water, and then walk the next rest of the day. yeah, lunch is going to be important. Like you said, the app will help you plan that. Emily (25:03) Yeah. Yeah. But I will say that my personal point of view, accommodations will serve you such a big full English breakfast that by the time it gets to lunch, I don't usually need any. can just power on through because like it's like sausages, bacon, eggs, like mush. Jonathan Thomas (25:28) That sounds like a gorilla. That's a really heavy breakfast. I can't imagine going for a long walk after having an English breakfast. You're gonna have to get used to it. Yeah. Emily (25:34) It's so heavy, it's very dense, yeah. You often get like black pudding as well. Do you get black pudding in the US? I don't know. No. It's not my cup of tea. Jonathan Thomas (25:44) No, you don't have that here. I mean, you can find anything if you go to a British or an Irish store. Most major cities have one, but it's not in the American diet, black pudding. So let's talk about weather. How can the weather affect the walk? And what backup plans should people have for rainy days to just keep walking or walk through the rain? I mean, because it's... Emily (25:56) Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (26:12) England in the summer, like I should tell people, like I tell the story all the time. I probably said on the podcast many times is I almost got hypothermia in July at an outdoor concert. like the weather could get very cold and wet very quickly. Emily (26:24) ⁓ no. Yeah, I don't, if it's that rainy, use your personal judgment, but I don't think you should be walking through it. It can make it slightly unsafe, depending on the surfaces of where you're walking. But like it can affect visibility. I mean, luckily with H-Things, you're not literally on a hill somewhere. yeah, I would say if it's rainy, there's so much to see and do that. not walk in one section, you're not going to miss much because as you've already said, there's a bus and it's really well connected. It's called like the Hadrian's Wall bus. Like it's designed specifically to take you to the best bits of the Hadrian wall, Hadrian's Wall. So if it's rainy, that's like the perfect excuse to go visit a museum. And there's a lot of museums and like archaeological sites. Jonathan Thomas (27:19) Yeah. So don't feel bad if you have to skip a section because it's torrentially raining. Will you still get the stamp and the passport? Emily (27:28) Yeah, you'll still get the stamp. Yeah, yeah, she mentioned that. That's another fun thing about the Haging's Law is that you do get a passport and can get stamped at certain checkpoints along Jonathan Thomas (27:34) Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then I should also add that it could rain for five, 10 minutes and then it'd be done raining. know, it's usually, rain is not usually a permanent state in the summer in England. Emily (27:50) Yes. No, no, it will be 10 minutes and then it will switch off just like a tap. So if you can just find a cafe to sit and wait for it to stop, you'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (28:01) Yeah, or the bus stand or the bus stop. Just wait there out of the rain. So what's your go-to packing list for Hadrian's Wall? Are there any items people tend to forget that you consider essential? Emily (28:18) Yeah, so I learned the hard way blister plasters, you have to pack them because my feet were absolutely awful and then I got to this lovely accommodation called Valum Lodge in Wadsbury and very kind lady there gave me her pack of blister plasters because my feet were so sore. Yeah, I don't think people pack them, they should. Jonathan Thomas (28:21) ⁓ no. Okay. I mean, in theory, if you've done a lot of walking to prepare, blisters should hopefully be at a minimum, are they just, are they gonna happen either, no matter how much you plan? Emily (28:56) Yeah, yeah, I thought that I thought my feet would just harden into like shoes, but it didn't happen. But no, apart from that, we do have like a list of important things to pack again on the app, because it's got all the information you could possibly want. the like top three proper shoes, trainers or hiking boots, preferably both blister plasters. Jonathan Thomas (29:02) It didn't happen. ⁓ Emily (29:23) and waterproofs. Also sun cream because I also got burnt on there if you do so. Jonathan Thomas (29:29) ⁓ yeah, mean, it's the summer. mean, it's, you could get sunburn easily, especially if you're walking into the sun. ⁓ I mean, even if you're walking away from the sun, you could get out of your neck too, I suppose. Yeah, sunscreen, that's a good one. And I should tell our listeners, a lot of these things, like, you may just have to buy them when you get there, because I doubt you want to take sunscreen through airport security. Emily (29:57) Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (29:58) And if you start in Newcastle, it's a major city, so you can buy anything you need that you didn't bring. Emily (30:04) That's another good reason to start East to West because I think you'll struggle if there's anything that you've not packed you'll struggle to get it in Bowness because it's very small. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (30:15) Yeah, and it's a long walk to Carlisle. So we've kind of covered this, but can you walk us through what a typical day on the wall is like from morning departure to evening arrival and when you're doing this kind of self-guided experience. Emily (30:30) I think the absolute beauty of self-guided travel is that it's so flexible to do whatever you want. can literally get up whatever time you want and set off walking. It's entirely in your hands. mean, do have to be like with a reason. Breakfast is usually served between like eight and ten. But yeah, that's what I would do. I would start walking earlier the better, about nine. after a big full English and then just stop along the way, visit some cafes, visit a museum and then you just need to check into your hotel, relax, have an evening meal, your bag will be waiting for you and then you just repeat it next day, just make sure your bag is downstairs ready to be collected and have your breakfast. ⁓ We really just take away the stresses and pains of travelling, like you just get to focus on what you actually want to do, which is have a lovely time. Jonathan Thomas (31:34) And that sounds really nice, because it's going to be hard enough to do this walk. Not having to worry about the logistics would be nice, because then you're literally just focusing on your own mental health to get through this, that you can do this. Your bag is handled. Your dinner is handled. And then you... Emily (31:42) with It's all fine, yeah. And if there are any issues, we're we're a phone call away, just give us a call and we'll be able to help. Jonathan Thomas (31:59) And then once you get in for the evening, you can lay in your bed and not move until the morning and watch all the British TV you want. So, speaking of accommodation, what is the accommodation like along the wall? Because I know Macs offers kind of several tiers for various budgets. So what can someone say, expect if they book on the budget plan versus if they want to pay a little more and have a more luxurious experience? Emily (32:04) Yeah. Exactly. Mm-hmm. So we work with a number of bed and breakfasts, guest houses, inns, which are basically pubs with rooms. We also work with restaurants with rooms and hotels. will say with the Hadrian's Hall, there's less opportunities to upgrade your accommodation just because of the places we work with. They're very, very small. So it will tend to be more bed and breakfasts and inns. I personally love a pub. So I'm more than happy to stay in a name. But I some people for that bed and breakfast experience or the hotel experience. I would say like it's not compared to like if you were doing a trip in the Cotswolds where there's so many hotels that are like four and five star. That's it's not possible in the Hageman's World because it's just it's just too small a place. But what it does give you is you get to actually meet the people that live there and work there and you get to know more about what it's like to live in England. Jonathan Thomas (33:36) Right, and I know ⁓ to kind of, I wanna maybe explain the difference between those different kinds of accommodations, because the pub with rooms, those are very common in England, and I've stayed in quite a few, and it's literally usually a pub downstairs and upstairs. That can be a lot of fun because you can hang out, and if you like to drink, you can hang out in the pub and meet the locals and have that kind of experience. Emily (33:44) That's it. Jonathan Thomas (34:06) But pubs with rooms tend to be kind of loud upstairs because you can hear people drinking till all afternoon, till closing time. But then a bed and breakfast is usually in someone's house. It's much quieter, much more personal experience. Guest houses are more like hotels and so on. So it kind of just depends on what kind of experience really you want to have. Emily (34:30) Yeah, because I've not been to America, so I don't know how accommodations work there. But it does feel like there is a difference. Jonathan Thomas (34:42) There is. Yeah, because here most of our hotels, at least most hotels are chain hotels, even in small towns. And there will usually be a small bed and breakfast in a small town if it's a pretty small town and people would have visited it. But bed and breakfasts are much more rare. ⁓ We definitely don't have bars with rooms above them. ⁓ But yeah, most places are just like a Holiday Inn or a Motel 8 or or a high end or a Marriott and they're everywhere. I mean, could, within five miles of my house, there's probably 10 or 15 hotels. But we live by Lake Michigan, so there's a lot of travel in this area. But anyway, hotels here, completely different experience than you would have pretty much anywhere in England. mean, yeah, you guys have chain hotels, ⁓ but in the countryside, there's a lot less chain hotels. Emily (35:23) ⁓ wow. Yeah. Yeah, Jonathan Thomas (35:41) Yeah. Emily (35:41) yeah. We tend not to work with too many chain hotels. In Newcastle, we do work with a couple. But yeah, as soon as you get into the towns and villages, it will just be like one family like owning and running it. Which is like, you say, it's really nice to get that personal experience. I always really enjoy meeting the people that run our little B &Bs and inns because they've always got the gossip. Jonathan Thomas (36:08) Well, right. They're Emily (36:09) Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (36:09) a special breed. It takes a lot to run one of those places. Emily (36:15) Yeah, it's a lot of work. It really is a lot of work. Jonathan Thomas (36:18) So having walked the wall yourself, what was your most memorable moment or surprise discovery? Emily (36:24) So I would say Vindolanda, which is... I don't know how to explain it without getting too excited because it's one of my favourite places I've visited. In one of Spreed, there was a fort called the Vindolanda Fort, which you can go and visit and it's got a museum attached and the museum is devoted to life in Vindolanda. Jonathan Thomas (36:35) I'm excited. Emily (36:52) So you've got like hundreds of pairs of Roman shoes. You've got like the armour that the horses would wear. Like it's got all these phenomenal things. But the most exciting thing is they've discovered preserved handwritten parchments from Roman soldiers writing letters home. And I think what had happened is they tried to burn a pile of them and it hadn't quite burned. and then just laser sediment on top, perfectly preserved it. So it's got letters like this Roman soldier asking his mum for a new pair of socks because it's so chilly and things like that. And it's just, it's so personal and it makes like 2000 years of history really, really relatable. Yeah, and it's so unique, like you just don't get that. So half of them are still in the Netherlands and half went to the British Museum because they're such a unique find. So yeah. That's my top tip. Whenever anyone asks me what's the one thing I should do, I doing so I'm like, visit Vindolanda. Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (37:57) Alright, I will make sure to do that. So, ⁓ how does Hadrian's Wall walk compared to other UK trails you've done, like the Cumberian Way or the Pembrokeshire Coast Path? Emily (38:09) I would say it's just the sheer amount of history and culture and the ⁓ number of sites to see is unparalleled to any other walk I've done. The Cumbria Way is very, very pretty. I've also done the West Highland Way, again, stunning, had the best time. But like the Haydreams Wall, it's just got so much history. Yeah, I can't say any more without getting too excited and just doing like a lecture. ⁓ on where you should visit it. But yeah, if you're really into Roman history and culture, I know I think about it at least one time a day. You need to go and see it. Jonathan Thomas (38:50) So what are the best ways for international travelers coming to the UK, usually they come through London, to get to the starting points of the Wall Walk? What do you guys recommend? Emily (39:01) It's one of the easiest walks to get to, I would say, because you've got two big towns and cities like Iverend, not Bonest, you've got Carlisle and you've got Newcastle. So London to Newcastle has a direct train. You've got London to Carlisle. might not be a direct train, but it will get you there in a few hours. I think it's also possible to fly into Manchester now. So Manchester to Carlisle is a nice easy train or Manchester to Newcastle again, nice easy train. you like starting in Scotland and working your way down again, direct trains, the public transport links to Carlisle, Newcastle are very, very good. Jonathan Thomas (39:44) So you heard it here people, take the train. Emily (39:46) Take the train because sometimes we get asked to do the taxi journeys and our taxi drivers just aren't willing to drive two, three hours. Yeah, get the train. Jonathan Thomas (39:54) Yeah. Yeah. It's a long... I've done the drive. In 2018, we drove lands in the Jon O'Groats. But we also kind of took the Eastern route up the East of England. And it's long time to get from the Cotswolds all the way up to York and further north. It takes a while. So you want to... Emily (40:12) This is... Yeah. Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (40:24) You want to make it easy and take the train. Emily (40:26) Yeah, take advantage of it. I mean, I'm originally from Norfolk, which is east of England, and that takes a while to get to just on the train. Jonathan Thomas (40:37) Yeah. So beyond the wall itself and beyond Vindalanda, what other local sites or museums along the route do you think people should definitely see? Emily (40:43) That's fine. Boy, boy, have I got a long list for you. In Newcastle, you've got the Great North Museum. This is another reason why actually it's best to start East to West because it gives you all the general background information you need to know about Hadrian's Wall because maybe you don't really know what it is. The Great North Museum, the biggest exhibition space is devoted to the Hadrian's Wall. And then it's got other interesting ⁓ exhibitions as well. So for example, it's got the tomb to the Palomarian woman who was a Syrian woman that married a Roman merchant based in Sunderland, which is near Newcastle. And so it's this beautiful tomb that's like a fusion of Eastern and classical design. You've got the Mithraeusian statue. So when you were on the patrons hall, you passed. the temple to Mithras, who's like this Iranian god, well Persian god that not a lot of people really know or understand because it wasn't written down anywhere and you've got a statue of that. You've also got really cool templates of, so the Roman army was made up of provincial soldiers who didn't have Roman citizenship, so it's like the written templates that basically gives them their citizenship, things like that. ⁓ You've also got different forts along the routes. You've got Chester's, which is based in Cholliford. You've got Birdersvold, which is going towards Carlisle anyway. You've got Halsteads, you've got the Lanarkos Priory, you've got Carlisle Cathedral. You've also got Carlisle Castle, which is the most besieged castle in Britain. And you've also got the three Bowness churches, which were... ⁓ basically turned into fortresses because the border readers who were Scottish people who would come over the border, steal the cattle and whatever and go back across the Solway which is the sea separating. Jonathan Thomas (42:57) of jerks right. So that kind of leads into my next question. Any local pubs, restaurants or food experiences along the way you'd highlight? Because I do love a good English pub meal or a sundae roast or a pie. What's good along the route? Emily (42:58) Yeah, well, we've been doing the same thing. So it's fine. It's all fine. And there's a few. So in Trolliford, there's a little village that's like a mile away called Humshoff. I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly. And they've got the crown in and it's one of my favorite parts I've ever visited. It's got this weird car theme that has to be, seemed to be village. Like they've papered the walls of the pub with like black and white images of cars, but they serve the best steak I've ever had. It was... Fantastic. ⁓ You've also got the Twice Brewed Inn, which is based in Huntsbrood. And they've got their own brewery attached, so they make their own beer. Jonathan Thomas (43:57) All right. Emily (43:57) And also you've got Howard Arms in Brampton, which is lovely. Jonathan Thomas (44:03) All right, the insider information. I'm making note. ⁓ So now, as with anything, things can go wrong. So on a self-guided trip like this, somebody can fall, get hurt. There can be severe weather. You might miss your connection. How does Macs Adventures kind of support walkers? Emily (44:08) No. So again, I'm going to bring up the app again because all of the information that you could possibly need is based on it. It's also got local taxi numbers. Should you need an emergency taxi? It's got general background information. It's also got emergency services numbers that you might need to call. But if you've tried to solve the issue and you haven't got anywhere where you just really feel like you need the support, if you give us a call on the emergency line. 24-7 support. So we've got a US office as well. So the US team cover the phones when it's like our nighttime and then in the daytime we pick up the fly. We've also, if you send an email, we've also got a shared inbox. So ⁓ if you send something at like 8, 9 p.m., they can work on it and then we can pick up on it as soon as we get in. So yeah, you're fully covered with 24-7. I've got care. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (45:25) Good to know, and that will make my wife a lot better about me doing it. So what's your advice for solo walkers versus group walkers? Are there any particular considerations for either? Emily (45:35) So for solo walkers, would say that Hadrian's Walk is a really nice walk for solo walkers because of the camaraderie that you'll get, because the route is really, really popular. You're going to... It's the rule, like, as soon as you walk and you see someone, you say hello, you'll get chatting. You'll talk about the weather and then it's the next person, the next person, the next person. So, yeah, although you'll be solo, you're never alone. And if you don't... want to talk if you really just want to do it by yourself, that's completely fine too because it's your journey, it's whatever you want to do. groups, I will say because the accommodations are quite limited. It is likely that you might be split up from your party. So you might be in two accommodations or two locations and unfortunately, there's not a lot we can do. It's just because it's such a popular route. It can make... booking onto a group difficult. But you know, it will just give you more to talk about when you see each other the next day with the walk. Jonathan Thomas (46:46) All right, well, you may have already answered this, but I'll have to get it just in case you have a different answer. ⁓ As someone who's trained others on this route, what's one insider tip about Hadrian's Wall that you always share with your team that might not be in the guidebooks? Emily (47:03) You might be able to guess what it is, but book an extra night in once, brood. Go and visit Vindolanda Honestly, you really might regret it. And if you do blame me because this is so good. ⁓ You can also get a bus and visit Corbridge. Go see the Roman town because I didn't get to do it. It looks really, really good. And I should also say that if you're an overseas visitor, you can apply for a visit. pass from English Heritage. English Heritage run most of the sites that you'll see in the hall apart from Vindeland are actually in the Roman Legion Museum. They do like different deals like you can get a nine day pass or a 16 day pass. It means that you can visit literally anywhere in England that is part of English Heritage for free. And it's not that expensive for the number of options that it gives you. So if you wanted to see Stonehenge one day, somewhere else the next, you could. Yeah, it pays for itself. Jonathan Thomas (48:04) good to know because like you said if a lot of them are run by English Heritage to pay one price for everything is a good tip so I'm gonna I'm gonna look into that. ⁓ is there any this sorry this isn't on my list but are there any national trust anything along the way on the walk? Emily (48:12) ⁓ Yeah. There's no national trusts. I'm just trying to think if there's any in Newcastle or Carlisle. I don't think so. The cathedral is free to get into. All Carlisle castles, English heritage. National trust. don't know if, listen, there's no national trust versus English heritage? Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (48:42) Yeah, yeah. we here in the US, you can join something called the Royal Oak Foundation and the National Trust affiliate here. It's a separate organization. if you join the Royal Oak, you get a card that lets you get into all the National Trust for free. But National Trust, you don't need to do that. But they should join the Royal Oak anyway, if they like Inca topia. Emily (48:49) Thank Alright. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, the National Trust, there are some really good National Trust sites in England, so just depends where you're going. I mean, if you want to tell me, I can have a little look. But I don't think there's any on the Hudings Wall itself, but also, yeah, definitely worth getting. Jonathan Thomas (49:23) All right, my last question is someone finishes the Hadrian's Wall walk and catches the walking bug. Which UK national trail would you recommend their next adventure be? Why? Emily (49:35) So I'm going to nominate the West Highland Way. It's incredibly popular for a reason because you literally see all of Scotland in one path. I did it myself. I went camping and did it and it was an experience. It's really hard work. It's 97 miles, I think. Jonathan Thomas (49:52) How long? Okay, so not much longer than Hadrian's Wall. Emily (49:59) No, but it is hard when you're counting and having to take all your stuff. But Macs Adventures, we also do the West Highland Way and it's like our most popular trip because we are like the experts in it. So that's also why I'm going to nominate it because it's the best. It's the best one. Jonathan Thomas (50:19) Good to know. All right. Well, what an incredibly helpful and inspiring conversation. Thank you for joining us on the Engeltopia podcast, Emily. We'll link to Macs's adventure and Hadrian's wall packages and all the booking information in the show notes. Emily has truly made me even more excited about tackling this legendary walk next summer. If you're planning your own Hadrian's wall adventure, you couldn't ask for better guidance than Macs's adventure. So please check out the link in the show notes to that. Um, this episode is not sponsored, I, you know, I happy to support any organization doing good stuff like this. So if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, or leave a comment. Really helps us discover the podcast. And if you do love what we do at AngleTopia, consider joining the Friends of AngleTopia Club, where you get early access to do episodes, connect with fellow Angle-ophiles in our private community and help support great long form writing about British travel, history, and culture. Whether you're dreaming of walking in Roman footsteps along Hadrian's Wall or exploring any of Britain's other national trails, remember that the best adventures start with good planning and expert advice. So join us next time as we continue our journey through the people, places, and histories that make British culture so endlessly captivating. Until then, happy walking. And thank you again, Emily, for joining us. Emily (51:38) Thanks for having me. Have a good time. Jonathan Thomas (51:42) future editing Jon popping back in before we sign off the podcast to remind everybody that if you enjoyed hearing about the Hadrian's Wall walk, please get in touch with Macs Adventures, but also please buy the special edition Hadrian's Wall calendar or all proceeds of this will go to fund me doing my walk next summer. And I forgot to mention in beginning, as always with our trips, you will hear about it all over social media. We'll share pictures. write about it and I'm even planning and this is a secret, I'm to write a book about it. So please, please buy the Anglotopia Hadrian's Wall special edition calendar. The link is in the show notes.