Jonathan Thomas (00:12) Welcome back to the Angotopia podcast. The podcast for people who love British travel history and culture. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today we're diving into the fascinating world of language with someone who has spent over two decades examining the subtle and not so subtle differences between how Americans and British people speak English. Our guest is professor Lynne Murphy, a linguistics professor at the University of Sussex and author of, Prodigal Tongue, The Love-Hate Relationship Between American and British English. It's a lovely book. Lynne Murphy (00:37) you Jonathan Thomas (00:44) Lynne is also the brilliant mind behind the blog separated by a common language where she's been documenting British American English differences since 2006, which is actually makes your blog older than my blog. So well done. But what makes Lynne especially intriguing for our show is her unique perspective. She's an American expat who's been living in England since 2000. So she's experienced linguistic culture clash firsthand. While also study it professionally. today. We're exploring her journey from Western New York to Brighton the myths and misconceptions that drive her crazy on both sides of the Atlantic and some delightful examples of how our two countries are separated by a common language that can still surprise each other. Whether you've been confused by a British rubber versus an American eraser or wonder why Americans dropped the U from color, you're in for a treat. Welcome, Lynne. Lynne Murphy (01:34) Hello, nice to be here. Jonathan Thomas (01:36) Thank you for coming on the podcast. I'm so excited about having you on. ⁓ Big fan of your work. So ⁓ let's start at the beginning. What's your story? How did you end up in Brighton at the University of Sussex? And was it purely academic or were you looking for a change of scenery? Lynne Murphy (01:39) Okay. Well, I was looking for a change of scenery. I was in Texas at a university that I maybe wasn't the best fit for. ⁓ So I was looking for a job. if you are a lexicologist, which is what I am, which, you know, there are probably 20 people in the world who call themselves lexicologists. The jobs, you have to go where they are ⁓ rather than waiting for them to come to you. So, yes, they advertised. position at the University of Sussex and I was excited to come. I had never been to England before. I came sight unseen, but I'm really glad I did. Jonathan Thomas (02:31) So were you an Anglophile before you went or was it just Anglophile by accident? Lynne Murphy (02:36) Um, I mean, I don't call myself an Anglophile. I know the English too well. Yeah, I mean, I enjoy the language. I enjoy language in general. I enjoy having a job in linguistics. So that's what brought me to England. And I love living here. I mean, I'm very happy I made that change. Jonathan Thomas (02:42) Hahaha! Very jealous. ⁓ how did your early academic experiences in South Africa and Texas shape your perspective on language when you arrived in England? Lynne Murphy (03:02) You Well, I, so I'd already had the experience of having, having to learn that other people say things differently, having to adjust my expectations about what things meant or how they'd sound. ⁓ and I had a bit of a, an early, ⁓ familiarity, not just with things like how to spell color, ⁓ you know, which in South Africa, you'd follow the British standard. But also things like how a university works and you know the jargon around my job. I already knew all that by living in South Africa where everything in the Anglophone parts of South Africa is very influenced by the UK. Jonathan Thomas (04:02) Interesting. So then, so when you arrived, you were, you were kind of used to it already. Lynne Murphy (04:06) Yeah, I mean, I remember there were American exchange students my first term and they were like, how do you know this already? We haven't figured anything out. But it was like, yeah, I know what a three year ⁓ bachelor's degree is shaped like and things like that, which are quite a big change if you're coming straight from the US. Jonathan Thomas (04:13) You Forgive me, this question isn't on my list I gave you, but ⁓ that experience in South Africa, now did you find that ⁓ South African English was very influenced by Africans at all? Was there a kind of a... Lynne Murphy (04:30) It's okay. There are words and there are pronunciations. ⁓ and it depends, you know, there are a lot of different accents in South Africa, depending on your ethnic background. ⁓ So, you know, one thing that's a lot of fun about South African English is it has got some words that neither British or American English have. Sometimes that's borrowings from Afrikaans or borrowings from African languages or borrowings from Indian languages. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (04:50) Right. Lynne Murphy (05:11) But some things like everybody's favorite would be robot. So a traffic light is a robot in South African English. And that's just a great word. Jonathan Thomas (05:22) Yeah, I mean, it is a robot, right? Technically, it makes sense. Lynne Murphy (05:25) Yeah, think especially, you know, in the early days, maybe when they were raising a flag instead of colored light, you know, it was a robot. Jonathan Thomas (05:31) Yeah. I love that. ⁓ So was there any particular moment or experience early in your time in England that made you think, I need to start documenting these language differences? Lynne Murphy (05:47) Well, I think I started documenting them when I got, I mean, I was six years in when I started the blog. So by that point, I'd realized that not only were there a lot of things I was learning because I hadn't learned them in South Africa during my four years there, but on top of that, I was going to keep learning new things about this language forever. You know, that if I tried to look up some of the differences I was coming up against, weren't in dictionaries. So once I realized that there wasn't gonna be an end to the differences, that's when I sort of thought, okay, well, I might as well start a lifelong project to write them down. ⁓ So the key point, I think the first blog post I did, was about Royal, R-O-I-L, because a colleague of mine had talked about a rolling boil and I had talked about a roiling boil, because in my English, boils royal. And so, you it was that point where I realized, yeah, it was never gonna end. There were always going to be little subtle differences. It wasn't just the big ones that everybody knew. That's where it started. Jonathan Thomas (07:09) Right, so then you started your blog, which is separated by a common language, and we will, of course, link in the show notes. So what was the catalyst that made you think, I'm going to start a blog? Because this was in 2006, back when blogs were a new thing. Lynne Murphy (07:23) When they were an exciting thing, yeah, I mean, one thing was just procrastination. I had a textbook due. I was supposed to be working on it. And, you know, I didn't want to. So that's always why I start blogs is because there's something else I should be working on. ⁓ Yeah. But it, yeah, it was a good time in terms of where blogs were. There weren't. Jonathan Thomas (07:25) Yeah. I know that only too well. ⁓ Lynne Murphy (07:52) A lot of people trying to start blogs about language, but I think it was a really good time to start a blog about a specific topic like this that could carry on forever. Because what was out there were various websites and dictionaries where people were just collecting things, but not saying anything about them. So there was the opportunity to go a little bit deeper. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (08:17) Guilty is charged. I'm a veteran collector and that's on our website. We like to be a starting point for more research. Lynne Murphy (08:30) Yeah, yeah. And the thing is, you know, anybody who works on dictionaries will tell you, they don't end. You know, there's always more to add. ⁓ So yeah, so it was an opportunity to create something that could roll on, you know, and get more creative for a long time. Jonathan Thomas (08:38) Yeah. And like us, you're still at it. So way to go. it. it to it. Lynne Murphy (08:54) I mean, when I was on Twitter, I mean, I'm technically still there, but I'm not posting, but you know, for nine years, I did a difference of the day every day and I hardly ever repeated, you know, so there are that many differences to talk about. ⁓ And I never, I never got to the end. This week I blogged about American in the fine print versus British in the small print. Jonathan Thomas (09:08) Wow. Lynne Murphy (09:23) I had never noticed that before somebody pointed out to me this week. You know, I've been here 25 years. So there's always more. There's always more to say. Jonathan Thomas (09:32) Yeah, there is. And ⁓ for the people who are going to peruse the show notes, where are you most active now on social media since you're not on Twitter as active anymore? Lynne Murphy (09:41) I'm on Blue Sky, not as active as I ever was on Twitter. I've got a Facebook page where I tend to re-link to other people's stuff. But I've got a sub stack where I have a monthly newsletter. And everything's under linguist, L-Y-N-N-E-G-U-I-S-T. So I can be found that way. So once a month I blog and once a month I do the newsletter, which is the blog. Jonathan Thomas (09:57) okay. Lynne Murphy (10:10) what I've been up to and lots of language links. Jonathan Thomas (10:15) Alright, well, the links for all of those will be in the show notes. So, in your book, well, actually, I want to know a little more about the history of the book. How did the book come about? you know, how has it, what has been the response since? Because it came out, I was at 2018, I believe. Lynne Murphy (10:31) Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, the book, because I've written a blog for so long, I'd had various people ask me if I wanted to do a book. And I tried a few times to get it started, didn't quite hit on what I wanted. I finally did ⁓ and was very lucky to get a grant from the National Endowment for the Humanities, ⁓ yeah, to take a year out and work on it. yeah, I did that in 2016. came out in 2018. it really, I mean, what was stunning about the book was just how much it gave me the opportunity to learn so much more about the background to these things. Because writing the blog was my hobby. My job in linguistics wasn't about British and American English at that point. So this gave me the reason to read a lot of history. that I had to learn in seventh grade, resented it then and found it so interesting now and read a lot about the social forces behind language and stuff that wasn't necessarily what I do most of the time. Jonathan Thomas (11:41) Fascinating. So in your book you write about the American verbal inferiority complex and the British verbal superiority complex. Can you explain what these are and how they kind of manifest in everyday interactions? Lynne Murphy (11:56) Yeah, I mean, I would say you can find superiority on both sides, you can find inferiority on both sides. But what I was talking about in particular is things like the stereotype that if you speak with a British accent or a sort of standard British accent, that you must be more intelligent, know, those sorts of biases that, you know, Americans will have where they feel inferior if somebody else is speaking British English. or they assume that the British speaker always knows what's correct grammatically, they assume that if British people say one thing and I say another thing, the British people must have it right. Now, not all Americans are like that, ⁓ and not all Americans are like that all the time, but it's a pattern you can see a lot. And then on the other side, the British superiority complex would be the assumption that if it's American, it's wrong. And one can see that a lot. Jonathan Thomas (12:52) Yeah, I believe me as a as a longtime runner of a blog I am told I'm wrong all the time. Yeah. So I've been talking to British expats here in the USA. They often say that that their accent is a superpower in their careers here that they there's this inbuilt Lynne Murphy (13:02) Yes. Jonathan Thomas (13:17) positive bias towards them because they speak of the British accent. It doesn't matter which British accent, Americans can't tell the difference. ⁓ Do you find, is there a corollary to that working in the UK that your American accent gives you a different sort of career trajectory or different perception? Lynne Murphy (13:35) I don't know that it, I don't think it's made my career go up or down in any particular way, but there is, I mean, it's always remarked upon, you know, that's for sure. ⁓ And yeah, the first term or maybe the second term I was teaching here, I had a student who was a retired. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (13:47) You Lynne Murphy (13:59) Royal Air Force man who decided to go back to university and study the language because he loved it. And it was a problem for him that it was an American teaching him about it. I mean, we had a great time together, but you always sort of felt like, well, you know, what does she know? And what did I know at the time? I was new here. But yeah, sometimes there can be a little bit of frisson, but yeah, in the main, it's all right. And, you know, of course, one of the things that the British congratulate themselves on often is the ability to laugh at themselves. if we can laugh together about our differences, that's all right. Jonathan Thomas (14:39) That's very true. And it's also, it's that, that, it's that joshing and ribbing between friends, you know, like, it's funny. Sometimes it can get a little, it can get a little, it can get a little scary. Sometimes, most of the time it's fun. So ⁓ what's the most persistent myth about American English that you encounter from British people that makes you just want to scream? Lynne Murphy (14:53) Most of the time. Well, I think the most general thing that we can say is a myth on both sides is that British English is older and that anything Americans do is, you know, a divergence from British English. And the thing I always have to say is British English didn't exist until American English existed. You know, that that term came up much later than the term American English because, you know, it wasn't until the British had an opposite side, that they became one thing and not a whole bunch of people speaking a whole bunch of different Englishes in essence. ⁓ So the idea that American is a degradation of British English is the big one. But to give an example that comes up a lot, the idea that Americans took the H off of the word H-E-R-B. So where Americans say herb and the British say herb, it's actually older not to say the H. ⁓ And so, you know, like we don't say the H in hour, on the clock or in honor or lots of other things. There are all sorts of words that came into English without a pronounced H. ⁓ But the British added it back in, in the 19th century. ⁓ And you know, now assume that Americans removed it and that it's somehow ignorant not to pronounce that H. Jonathan Thomas (16:46) Interesting. So on the flip side, what misconceptions do Americans have about British English? Lynne Murphy (16:53) Well, I think the flip side is that anything in Britain must be old and not new. So to look at the OUR spellings that Americans must have been the first people to take out the U, well, that wasn't true. ⁓ Or that British people have always spelt things with ISE instead of I. Jonathan Thomas (16:59) Right. Lynne Murphy (17:22) Zed or Z-E, you know, that's not true. ⁓ So, you know, all those sorts of things where you, it's just this automatic assumption. I'd say another thing that often I think surprises Americans about British English is that Americans care a lot about grammar. And they're surprised when they hear me say this, but Americans care more about grammar than about things like accent. whereas the British are very attuned to accents. ⁓ And a lot of the things that we learn as rules in America, especially if you're educated in the humanities like I was, ⁓ are not actually rules in British English. So, you know, I was once taught that there's a difference between that and which, you know, and I had to remember which one to use when. ⁓ I was taught not to say try and, but to say try to. And I'd come to England with all these rules that I'd learned as somebody who gets involved in editing and correcting students' work and things like that. discovered actually all those assumptions I had about correct and incorrect didn't apply here. So, you know. I have seen Americans say things to British people about, well, you know that because it's your language. But ⁓ those kinds of grammar pickiness things are not the same here and there. There isn't one right English. There are a couple of standards. Jonathan Thomas (19:02) Well, according to the British, there's only one right English. So ⁓ you've mentioned that claims like Americans have ruined the English language are often repeated, but rarely examined. What's your response when someone says this to you at a dinner party? Lynne Murphy (19:05) Yeah, I will. Well, most people are too polite to say that to an American editor party. Yeah, I mostly see that in the newspapers, in the media, on TikTok, wherever. But if people want to talk to me about it, I'll ask for examples. And I very often can say, actually, I'm that person, I'm that well-actually person. Well, actually, the H. Jonathan Thomas (19:23) Good, good. Ha ha ha. Lynne Murphy (19:45) was not pronounced until the 1900s, or actually, you know, the ISE spelling wasn't the standard in Britain until recent decades, you know, and just things like that. And I like to say that British and American, we can't think about them as being ⁓ one is the child of the other, like many people try to, we have to think of them as sort of cousins. They have some common grandparents way back when, but they've been making their own changes since then. So, you know, I will say, well, you know, British English changes awfully fast. And, you know, that's part of the reason why they're different. It's not because Americans are changing things, but because British English is changing too. Jonathan Thomas (20:25) Yeah. Yeah, and it's constantly changing. Even since I started the blog game, I've seen new slang words come into use. And I'm like, oh, that's interesting use of that word. OK. All right, we're going to do that now. OK. Lynne Murphy (20:41) huge. Yep, and the accents are constantly morphing. Jonathan Thomas (20:53) Yeah, they really are. ⁓ And I kind of have an ear for the different accents, but even I get caught out. like, I'm sorry. I thought I could place where you were from and I know I cannot figure it out. So what's your favorite example of a word that means something completely different in American versus British English? And has it ever caused you personal embarrassment to get a word wrong? Lynne Murphy (21:17) ⁓ I mean, I'm sure it has at some point. ⁓ the, biggest embarrassment story I can think of is that historically in British English, I wouldn't, I would not say that you should say this today. ⁓ but slutty just meant sloppy and untidy. And so one time we were in the States and my husband said to my goddaughter, Get away from me, you slutty child. So that was embarrassing. That was embarrassing. ⁓ But for me, it's more things like I've never got used to the British use of homely, where homely means homey, know, ⁓ cozy and comfy. And so when people call things of mine homely, I hear the American ugly meaning. Yeah. So that, yeah. Jonathan Thomas (21:45) Oh my god. Oh no. Right. You're like, excuse me. Lynne Murphy (22:13) That's the one that tends to throw me off track still. Jonathan Thomas (22:15) and then you're second guessing yourself. Wait a second. Do they really mean it? No. Lynne Murphy (22:17) Yeah, yeah. Maybe they wanted to, know, sides that, you know. Jonathan Thomas (22:26) You've written about how Americans move from center to center. Can you walk us through one spelling change that really illustrates the historical forces at play here? Lynne Murphy (22:36) I think all the spelling changes do illustrate different things. So with center, with an E-R-N-N-R-E, it started out as an R-E in British because it was borrowed from French and that's what it is in French. It reflects French pronunciation. The British kept it. When it went over to America, it was part of... what was sort of the more simplified spelling that Noel Webster brought in in his dictionary. ⁓ Which is not to say that he made it up. He chose that spelling. It was probably already there, you know, under the current anyway, because it more reflects how we pronounce the word. But then you can see as you come through to today, you'll find center spelled with an R-E in America. You'll find it on such and such medical center or some art center. So then it becomes a spelling that's classy. So we can bear two spellings in the same place, but when we borrow in a new spelling, sometimes it gets a new meaning. ⁓ Sorry, go ahead. Well, I was going to say I mentioned the ISEI. Jonathan Thomas (23:35) Shopping center. Yeah. ⁓ Go ahead. No, go ahead. Lynne Murphy (23:59) Z-E or I-Z-E, spelling like in realize. And that's the kind of thing where Noah Webster just took a stance. We're going to use the Z sound because that's what we say. The Oxford English Dictionary also has the Z first. And for a long time in British publications, you could use either. And it sort of, there were historical reasons, you know, the S came from French, the Z came from ⁓ elsewhere. ⁓ But what happened after spell check became a big thing is people stopped being comfortable with there being two spellings. And so those two spellings, you know, really since the 1990s have diverged in Britain ⁓ with people seeing the eye. ZE spelling as being the American spelling when it wasn't until very, recently. So it's still now we're making differences. ⁓ know, old differences become deeper differences in some cases. Jonathan Thomas (25:08) And it's really hard to work with. I worked for an Irish company for many years and they obviously spell everything the proper way. And at least that's what my boss would say. And I would, even though I would check for extraneous Zs in my copy, I'd always have the Zs and I'd be like, ⁓ man, I know, like I know better, but it's your brain just totally makes it invisible. Lynne Murphy (25:26) Yeah. yeah, and part of the reason why it's easy to do that is because many spell checkers for British English will accept both because they're both fine. The Z spelling is so-called Oxford spelling, but people on the street, people in workplaces are much less comfortable with that Z now because they see it as Jonathan Thomas (25:39) Yeah. Yeah. Lynne Murphy (25:53) assigned a document to have been Americanized. Jonathan Thomas (25:57) I was also thinking the word theater is one of those words because not only is the spelling different, but theater also has a different meaning where it says whether you're going to a movie theater or a theater theater. even here, it does my head in because it's spelled both ways, you know? Yeah. Lynne Murphy (26:01) Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think a similar thing besides the spelling differences, we've got pronunciation differences. And sometimes like ⁓ a British pronunciation will come into America. Sometimes it's always been there, you know, in some dialects. But I think about, I use both the words vase and vase. But a vase is more expensive than a vase. You know, so you can do the same thing that you do with spellings, with pronunciations and have-posts, but they separate out a little bit. Jonathan Thomas (26:40) Yeah. Yeah, my daughter who's 12 now, when she was a toddler, she watched Peppa Pig ⁓ all day. so occasionally she'll say a word in British English. She says costume, not costume. And we're like, what did you just say? You didn't say it right. It's those little things. It's just so bizarre. So what's a British expression or usage that you've adopted in your own speech that you have to catch yourself code switching when you talk to Americans so you don't confuse them? Lynne Murphy (27:16) I mean, I think I don't catch myself all that often, and so they have to say, ⁓ I mean, so much of what I say now is British that I don't even, yeah. Some of it's just so subtle I don't realize. I mean, I wouldn't say Fortnite to an American unless I was talking about the video game. I... I mostly trust Americans to understand a lot of the British things because you pick it up from context. suppose going back to words that have two meanings, I did catch myself recently saying nervy to an American and realizing after I'd said it that they might have misinterpreted it because in British English, nervy means ⁓ nervous. Whereas I think in American you interpret it more as somebody having a lot of nerve, you know. Jonathan Thomas (28:07) Yeah, yeah. Lynne Murphy (28:08) you know, somebody barged in on you or something. ⁓ So that's one where I didn't realize it till too late, but I probably misled somebody. Jonathan Thomas (28:18) Are there any American expressions that you've noticed have started to creep into British English and kind of recolonize the motherland there? Lynne Murphy (28:23) ⁓ lots. Lots, you know, there are so many. ⁓ And, you know, but there are so many going the other way to these days, you know, so we've got a lot more contact between the two, the two countries and the two dialects. And we did have, you know, back before recorded speech back before, you know, zoom back before all sorts of things. So lots of going both ways. I'd say one that came up the other day in conversation. was gotten. So I have gotten, you know, I've gotten a new hat. That got gotten was not used in most of Britain for quite a long time. And so you'd say I've got a new hat. The gotten has really been coming back to Britain. It started here, right? ⁓ And you can still see it in other places like, you know, misbegotten, forgotten, things like that. British people say all those things. But for some reason, people want to complain about gotten as a very ugly word that's made its way back, they'd say. ⁓ But it's everywhere now. I mean, I listen to my I've got a 17 year old all over France are saying got Jonathan Thomas (29:44) I remember being in middle school being told, you know, don't say gotten, have got have I'm like, and it doesn't reflect how people actually speak. So, spoiler, you've become a British citizen and you're married to a Londoner. How has that personal integration affected your professional perspective on these language differences? Lynne Murphy (29:54) You Well, it gives me a lot more exposure. And it also, it helps, it's hard as an American to understand what you're saying that's American. It's very easy to recognize what other people are saying that's not American, but it's hard for you to see your own language and what other people aren't understanding. So if you're in a relationship where you're in that kind of contact all the time, you see it. And so, ⁓ you know, there are, Jonathan Thomas (30:27) Right. Lynne Murphy (30:37) things I'll say, like if I ever say sure to answer a question, ⁓ I, you know, get a lot of pushback on that because that's just, he sees that as just a completely ⁓ negative thing to say. what do you mean sure? You know, he'll say, shall I make chicken for dinner? I'll say sure. And he'll say, all right, I'll make, you know, omelets instead. Jonathan Thomas (30:53) Yeah, what do you what do you mean sure you're this a comfort? Lynne Murphy (31:06) ⁓ That's what I said. you know, it's, I don't know that it's given me a different perspective, but it's given me a lot more ⁓ examples. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he was already, he lived off and on ⁓ for six years in America. he had, we could already talk to each other. Yeah. I think. Jonathan Thomas (31:15) Certainly giving your husband a different one, right? Well, that's good. I mean... Lynne Murphy (31:32) Parenthood is the thing that really gives you a different perspective because here I am. I'm the child's mother. We talk about having a mother tongue. Well, you know already when my daughter was two, she said daddy says boss and you say bath. And I said, what are you going to say? And she said, boss. And it was already when she was two years old, she realized that I was wrong. Everybody else was right. Jonathan Thomas (31:36) yeah. So does she have a perfect little British accent now that she's much older? Lynne Murphy (32:05) yeah, she's got, yeah, she's got a, ⁓ you know, she's got the accent that kids her age have in South of English. She doesn't like to do an American accent, I think, because she knows how harshly she'll be judged by her American family for it. But, you know, she had to get used to at a young age, you know, when we go over to the states of ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (32:12) Can she switch? Ha Lynne Murphy (32:30) cousins following her around saying, say something English, say something English, say water, know, things like that. Jonathan Thomas (32:38) I love it. What's something about British English that you've come to appreciate more over the last 20 years that you initially found kind of annoying? Lynne Murphy (32:45) ⁓ Well, I think because I was raised as sort of a grammar stickler, ⁓ I have come to appreciate that not all of the rules that I had had to be followed. You know, it's I think because I have been dealing in both languages for so long, I think I've just come to the point where instead of being annoyed, I can just enjoy. enjoy all the differences. ⁓ So, yeah. And there are lots of words, you know, I love calling myself a numpty, you know, there are lots of great things to use in this language. Jonathan Thomas (33:32) Yeah. ⁓ In your research, have you found that technology and social media are making British and American English more similar or are they still maintaining their distinctiveness across these social networks? Lynne Murphy (33:45) I mean, there's a lot of words going back and forth. ⁓ But I also, mean, the linguistic landscape has just changed so much with social media and with people talking so much more to people who aren't physically there with them. So, you know, I think, I don't think my, say my daughter is learning to speak American from all the American board game enthusiasts she talks to online, but surely they're getting a common vocabulary for talking about the things that they like to talk about. So it's, there are more words that are coming up that you cannot say, well, that started in Britain, that started in America, because they're coming up at the same time through, through an online presence, you know, but at the, so. On the one hand, yeah, some things get more similar. On the other hand, as long as people want to feel themselves as being from a particular place or a member of a particular group, you know, they're probably going to stick with speaking like that. And I think, you know, we're not seeing a great coming together of accents, for example. you know, it's vocabulary goes here and there. Some grammatical things push here and push there. But, you know, the way we talk, not that different, or not that similar in terms of what's changing. We're not changing in the same directions. Jonathan Thomas (35:26) Well, what's amusing on social media at least is seeing Americans not understand British sarcasm or British humor and totally misreading what somebody is saying on social media. Lynne Murphy (35:37) Well, I think it's easy for anybody in social media to miss me because it's hard to get the clues that somebody's being being sarcastic, which is why we've got emojis and all that kind of thing. But, you know, what what's been fun on social media is to see things like a few years ago, there was a thing about cheeky Nando's, right? So somebody on Twitter said, you know, I could go for a cheeky Nando's and that became like. Jonathan Thomas (35:41) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Lynne Murphy (36:04) the great American quest to find out what a cheeky man does. And so, you know, there's lots of room for us to have fun with each other's language. Jonathan Thomas (36:15) Well, that's what we say now. We have Nando's in Chicago. So we, that's what we say. You want to go for a cheeky Nando's? Lynne Murphy (36:18) You go for a Well, Nando started out in South Africa, so I'm, you know, I was thrilled to find them here too, because that was my great treat in South Africa. Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (36:24) Yeah. That's so good. So good. ⁓ Well, this is not a question to do with language or anything, but what is what are your favorite British food dishes that you've adopted since moving there? Lynne Murphy (36:41) Well, I mean, I'm supposed to be going low carb. So this is a very difficult question. I mean, a crumpet is the best thing in the world. ⁓ I love a crumpet, but I have not been eating crumpets lately. ⁓ Yorkshire puddings, know, all those sort of great starchy things. ⁓ Yeah, ⁓ are great. But I must have, I don't drink tea now. And I became, I didn't used to drink coffee. Jonathan Thomas (36:45) That's hard. Ha ha ha. ⁓ Do you drink a lot of tea? Go ahead. Lynne Murphy (37:09) I became a coffee drinker over here because I realized that you cut off your social ⁓ contacts if you don't drink hot drinks. Jonathan Thomas (37:17) Yeah. Yeah, if you don't take a tea break or a coffee break. That's interesting. So if you had to predict the future ⁓ as a lofty academic, ⁓ do you think we're heading more towards convergence or divergence between American and British English? Lynne Murphy (37:22) Yeah. I think you've got both and they will both continue to happen for as long as countries are a thing, you know. I mean, there'll be different differences, but I mean, one of the things I quote in the book, I found a book from 1965, 66, somewhere around there that was saying, Jonathan Thomas (37:46) In the year 3000, we'll still be debating the differences. Yeah. Lynne Murphy (38:06) pretty soon all the British are going to be saying all of these American things. And they were exactly the same things that 45 years later, I was reading in the paper, pretty soon we're all gonna say these American things, you know? So people are very bad at predicting what's gonna happen with language. ⁓ But what I'm confident in saying is, Jonathan Thomas (38:21) you Lynne Murphy (38:35) it'll never all be one thing, you know, because we are using it to express ourselves. Jonathan Thomas (38:39) Right. All right. And for my for my final question, for Americans who are moving to the UK or for Brits who are moving to the US, what's your number one piece of advice for navigating linguistic and cultural differences? Lynne Murphy (38:53) ⁓ I think my number one piece of advice for anybody going to anywhere else is just to be humble. know, to listen and be curious and not be, you know, ready to say what's right and what's wrong, you know, so to try to enjoy what you're hearing. My number two piece of advice, if I can have two, is don't try to use the naughty words because you won't do it right, you know. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (39:19) Hahaha Lynne Murphy (39:21) You know, so many Americans will come over and they'll want to, if you don't mind me saying some naughty words, they'll want to say bloody and wanker. And they will not use them in the right places. So just don't, you know, let other people do it. Enjoy it. You don't need to do it too. Jonathan Thomas (39:32) Just dope. So all those people browsing one of the most popular articles on our website about insults don't actually use them, only learn them, enjoy them. ⁓ Lynne Murphy (39:47) No, enjoy them. Yeah. Yeah. And know when they're being applied to you. That's the most important. Defensive ⁓ insult learning is important. I mean, if you want to apply them to Americans in America, fine. ⁓ That they'll take off in a different way and develop differently there. yeah, when you try to use them to the people who know how to use them right, you can fall for that. Jonathan Thomas (39:52) Yeah, ex- Yeah, well, I'll be driving with my wife somewhere and somebody will cut me off or do something idiotic and I'll say a bad word, British word, and Jackie will go, John, you're not in England. You don't live there. You can't use that word. Use the right one. Lynne Murphy (40:29) I think in the privacy of your own car you can use whatever words you want. Jonathan Thomas (40:34) Whatever keeps the road rage away, right? So, well, what a fascinating discussion this was, Lin. Thank you so much for joining us on the Anglotopia podcast. We will link to Lin's blog, Separated by a Common Language, and her book, The Prodigal Tongue, in the show notes. If you want to dive deeper into British American English language differences, that's the American edition. Apparently I have the British edition, which is, I don't know how that happened. ⁓ Lynne Murphy (40:36) Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Jonathan Thomas (41:02) If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, or comment. And if you like the Anglotopia podcast, please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia Club, where you can get early access to new episodes and connect with other Britain enthusiasts. So join us next time as we continue exploring the people, places, and stories that make Britain's cultural heritage so endlessly fascinating to discover. So thank you so much, Len. Lynne Murphy (41:23) Thank you.