Jonathan Thomas (00:00) Welcome back to the Anglotopia podcast. The podcast for people who love British travel, history and culture. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today we're stepping behind the velvet ropes of one of Britain's most magnificent stately homes with Carmen Alvarez, collections and conservation manager at Blenheim Palace. Carmen oversees the preservation of extraordinary treasure spanning centuries from fine furnishings to delicate Spencer Churchill gowns. that haven't been displayed for 20 years. What makes her story particularly compelling is her journey up through the ranks at Blenheim, from welcome team supervisor to for current role managing one of Britain's most significant heritage collections. Today, we're exploring two exciting new experiences that she helped create, the new Ladies of Blenheim exhibition showcasing rare fashions worn at historic weddings and coronations and the intimate Meet the Collections team talks, giving visitors unprecedented access to hidden palace treasures. Whether you've ever wondered how you preserve a centuries-old tapestry or what it takes to care for artifacts at a UNESCO World Heritage Site, you're about to discover the fascinating world of heritage conservation at Plinum Palace. Welcome, Carmen. Carmen Alvarez (01:05) Thank you so much for having me today. Jonathan Thomas (01:08) So thank you for being here. We really appreciate it. Thank you for making time from the busy palace. So ⁓ first, let's talk about this new exhibition, because when I got the press release in my inbox, was like, we've got to have somebody to talk about this, because this is going to be really interesting. So first, please give us some background on Blenheim Palace and what makes it so important for visitors. Carmen Alvarez (01:21) Mm-hmm. ⁓ Well, Blenheim Palace, ⁓ apart from ⁓ everyone I think knows Blenheim Palace internationally for being the birthplace of Sir Winston Churchill, of course. But going way back before that, it was a present from Queen Anne to the first Duke and Duchess of Mulvur who gifted the land and the funds to build Blenheim Palace. It's a very special and unique baroque building ⁓ that must be highlighted always as one of the best baroque samples ⁓ in the country and in Europe I would say British baroque and World Heritage Site since 1987 so it's definitely a witness of history and the past of the Spencer Chatter family. Jonathan Thomas (02:21) So the history about Blenheim is oftentimes focused on the great men, John Churchill and Winston Churchill. So what inspired this concept for the Ladies of Blenheim ⁓ exhibition? And how did you decide which pieces to include after being so long in storage? Carmen Alvarez (02:26) Yes! Well, we made a selection ⁓ mainly from Consuelo of Vanderbilt's time, the ninth Duchess of Mulborough. ⁓ But of course, the family had remarkable women all the way back from the first Duchess of Mulborough, Sarah. ⁓ But of course, we wanted to present something. We know that our guests do love fashion. We did an amazing exhibition last year. ⁓ called I can see British fashion. we know and we knew from that time that our guests do love display around fashion. we chose ⁓ to do something from ⁓ more related to the history of the palace and the family, highlighting these fashion moments and a special ⁓ history ⁓ events around these women. rather if weddings or coronations or just special outfits that can highlight the character of these special women. Jonathan Thomas (03:42) So, well, please tell us about these fascinating women who are featured in the exhibition and why it's important to tell their stories. Carmen Alvarez (03:49) Well, I think ⁓ we wanted to do it mainly because some of these women are very important for the history of Blenheim. So one of the reasons that I wanted to do it is because I did come across Lady Henrietta Spencer-Churchill, the daughter of the 11th Duke of Marlborough and sister of the current Duke of Marlborough. ⁓ She is a wonderful historian, nothing knows the palace and the history better than she does. I came across her wedding dress ⁓ in one of the cabins in the palace, so I asked her if she would ever mind if I could display her wedding dress and she said of course not. ⁓ I started building the display around that and just trying to go through the archives and see what we could find and display that could be interesting or items that have them. been seen for a while and we can tell the story of ⁓ her, Consuelo Vanderbilt ⁓ and the 10th Duchess or the future 13th Duchess of Marlborough Lady Camilla Blandford, which is another ⁓ item that we haven't displayed as well, her wooden dress and her evening gown and the morning after. it's, think, yeah, we tried to do something for every, ⁓ every, public, ⁓ every taste basically. Jonathan Thomas (05:14) So can you tell us about what was the most challenging piece to kind of take out of storage and conserve for this exhibition and what special measures do you have to take to display it for the public? Carmen Alvarez (05:26) So I would say there are two very special garments in this display. One was the coronation gown worn by Consuelo Vanderbilt for the coronation of King George ⁓ V in 1911. It actually was reused by the 10th Duchess Mary for both coronation of George VI and Queen Elizabeth in 1953. Jonathan Thomas (05:52) wow. Carmen Alvarez (05:53) And one of the reasons that was reused is because after the war, country was coming out, the close rationing. So she didn't want to spend too much money on new garments and everything around it. So she decided to repurpose and reuse what was worn by Consuelo Bandiville in 1911 and worn twice. both the robes as well as the dress. So it's very delicate this one because all the brocade and embellishments have been, they're basically in some areas holding by a thread. So we had to ⁓ reinstate them. We had the textile conservator having a look and then temporarily just reattach them ⁓ to make sure that we could display it safely. And the other one is the coronation, the maid of honor gown worn by ⁓ Lady Rosemary Spencer Churchill as a maid of honor for Elizabeth II in 1953, which the silk alone, it was just in such a delicate condition. It was conserved for another exhibition, but we wanted to display it because our guests loved it. So in terms of how we make sure that they are displayed safely and without causing any further damage, it's just making sure that the environmental conditions are the right ones, so from the light levels, constant pest control and pest monitoring and just using the right mannequins, making sure that there's not tension or any pressure on the fabric or any part of the garment really. also, of course, we are very much, we believe in displaying or making, creating exhibitions that are accessible for the public from a preservation point of view. So they are not inside display cases, which I think make them more special, which put more pressure on the collections and conservation team because we need to be more every day, more on top of making sure that nothing is going wrong around the garments. Jonathan Thomas (07:58) it's interesting that they're not in cases because how do you manage all of the elements to make the temperature and light perfect in the room in a 300 euro palace? Carmen Alvarez (07:59) They're not, they're in the rooms, yeah. It's a challenge, let me tell you. Something that I learned working in a historic house and this is something that I'm sure any colleague, if you ever interview another colleague from another historic house, this is something that we know. We will never be a museum. We are a lift in space. So as much as you want to control the environment, environmental levels, like the temperature, humidity, the light levels, When it's hot, need to open windows and, you know, it's just light levels are very difficult to control because we don't have spotlights and, you know, how would you all do in an exhibition room? So it's a challenge. Half of the palace, the humidity is very dry. The other half is very high. And, you know, it's very difficult to find the happy medium, but it's hard work, but it's worth it because we are part of preserving these heritage. It pays off. Jonathan Thomas (09:08) So which part of the palace or this exhibition located in? Carmen Alvarez (09:12) So ⁓ we have displayed them within the rooms and the steak rooms. So they have a beautiful frame, basically. Jonathan Thomas (09:19) Oh, wow. OK. Lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I've been there several times so I can visualize it. That sounds lovely, because at least they're not in the carriage house. Carmen Alvarez (09:32) No, no, no. Originally the idea was to display them in the library, but we also, as you know, you've been to Blenheim, also host many events ⁓ and we always need to give out the space. Jonathan Thomas (09:39) Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that would be a challenge. Carmen Alvarez (09:46) So, but it's fine because they, as I say, they offer the room, each room offers a different frame for each garment, which makes it even more special. And actually we also displaying them in rooms where the garment could be related to a portrait in the background or photograph that is on a table. So it makes more sense and actually it gives more meaning to the piece. Jonathan Thomas (10:08) man, you're making me want to get on an airplane and come look at this exhibition. So as you were putting together this exhibition and gathering these dresses, ⁓ which Spencer Churchill woman's story surprised you the most during your research and which item best represents her legacy? Carmen Alvarez (10:27) so this is a very difficult question because all of them deserve to be highlighted. But I would say that I really admired 10 Thatches Mary. To the point that we wanted to only display garments for very special events like weddings and things like that, but I ended up displaying her ⁓ Red Cross ⁓ and ATS garments and riding attires as well because she is so fascinating. She was a long-term supporter of the Red Cross ⁓ and she was a member of its executive committee as well. She travelled around the world, represented the charity and she was the president of the Oxford Shared Branch as well. So she... She was very much involved with the locals during war times as well. ⁓ it's funny because her husband wrote that she was a female general while he was only a captain. I think that represents her character. She was very much involved with the family, with the locals community, with the charity. She was a strong, ⁓ admirable woman for sure. Jonathan Thomas (11:52) Fascinating so I'm curious And this kind of goes into my next question. I know Blenheim is currently undergoing ⁓ a Conservation program for the building itself right now. So how how do you protect the garments from construction dust and noise and all that? Carmen Alvarez (11:53) Mm. Mm-hmm. So ⁓ actually, the garments are... So we got a scaffolding in the north and south facade, but the majority of the work has happened on the roof. So we have displayed the garments in the stake rooms and drawing rooms. So they are away from all that. ⁓ And dust... Jonathan Thomas (12:23) Okay. Carmen Alvarez (12:36) Even, let me tell you, even if we wouldn't have a roof project going on, the dust levels will always be there. Because as I say, we opened the door widely for everyone to come in and even people bring dust in as something normal. But we are lucky to have a wonderful conservation cleaning team that every morning does the checks and the collections team as well. we're just on it to make sure that everything, not only the garments, because in the end we've got the tapestries, the carpets, the furniture. So everything is safe for another day. Jonathan Thomas (13:11) So did you have to do anything special to conserve these items so they could be on display for three months? Is there any special precautions? Because like you said, there's a lot of people walking through these rooms and they're bringing in mud from the estate. They're bringing in ⁓ children, but children are dirty as we know. Carmen Alvarez (13:24) Yeah. Yes, no, they are, of course they are behind ropes. So even if they are exposed and we are not putting them behind a glass, ⁓ they are behind ropes. So they are not reachable, if you know what I mean. But they are just displayed with the rest of the objects in the room, but they are safe. apart from the rope, as I say, which is Jonathan Thomas (13:46) Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (13:57) make sure that we are constantly checking the garments. If we notice anything, a threat or anything that it could be out of place, even if we have to remove it, we would remove it. We would have never displayed anything that we could compromise or the conservation or condition can be compromised. We will never do that. That's why actually they've been pieces. ⁓ Lady Rosemary's made-up-on-a-dress, for example, wasn't displayed for many, many, many years because it was in such poor condition. So since has been ⁓ conserved, now lives already on its own mannequin. So we don't even handle the dress anymore. So it's padded and it's done in a specific way that we only need to handle the mannequin without having to touch the fabric, if that makes sense. So, and then it has its own tray and it holds padding system and packing system when we have it in the storage. So, and I put hundreds of Do Not Touch signed around it so no one gets any near it. But yeah, so that's how we do it. Normally people say that the best way of conserving thing is having the angriest panier shouting at people. So maybe that helps as well. Jonathan Thomas (15:12) Ha ha ha ha ha. love it. And it's not like there's not people in the rooms monitoring everything anyway. So it's not like everything's unprotected. Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (15:19) Yes, we do. Yes, end CCTV cameras, so all that from security point of view. We have all that covered. Jonathan Thomas (15:27) steal the golden toilets, right? Carmen Alvarez (15:28) Well, let's not go in there. Let's go on there. There's another podcast. Jonathan Thomas (15:34) So ⁓ moving on to the other new experience that you guys had, I've, like I said, I've visited Blundem several times and I've done a behind the scenes tour, which was one of my favorite experiences. So this new thing sounds amazing. So it's, can you tell us what the new Meet the Collections experience is all about and what it kind of entails for visitors? Carmen Alvarez (15:56) So this is something completely new that we haven't done before. We realised for the last few years that we've been doing our deep clean. The house to bed used to be, the spring clean and some of the historic houses, that these used to be done while we were close to the public, but for the last, I know, now eight years I think, we've been doing it open to the public. So while we do the cleaning, we get so many questions and we get people approach us and ask about anything and everything. So for this summer, as you know, and you mentioned the roof project, we've been trying to offer as much as we can to just share with everyone that even if we have the scaffolding, it's worth coming to the sea plan and palace because we have so much to offer. And one of the things I thought, you know, we are a very small team, collections team, but what if We try with the weekends first, we pick up our favourite objects or objects that haven't been on show or you cannot see very well if they're at the back of the room, bring them forward or let's position ourselves in a room and let's meet and greet our guests and if they have any questions about a specific object or whatever we're highlighting. ⁓ the bull furniture at tapestry or anything, or normally they just want to know how we look after the place or any interesting aspects of our job. So that's why we're doing, we just answering all those questions and making sure that they have a great time and they learn about the collection because in the end that's what we're there for. Jonathan Thomas (17:31) Right. that's how those gone so far this summer since the, they started. Carmen Alvarez (17:36) It's actually gone really well. ⁓ I would say that... People are more interesting in, as I say, more than the object that we're trying to highlight. They want to know many other things that sometimes, history as well. ⁓ Sometimes it's just called the toilet. all the things, but ⁓ it's great because anything that they ask, if we can answer the question, we will do it. yeah, so we're there to educate and share the history of Jonathan Thomas (17:52) Yeah. Hahaha Carmen Alvarez (18:11) of plan and so yeah. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (18:14) So there's been some recent work on the famous tapestries. Can you tell us about how those were conserved and are they back on display now? Carmen Alvarez (18:22) Yes, over 20 years ago I thought, think it was a ⁓ rotation of conservation started for the collection of blenem, the collection of tapestries. So normally every year one tapestry from the public side and one tapestry from the private side go for conservation. Before Brexit they used to go back to Brussels ⁓ after being ⁓ check or the lining at the back and removing all the poppers or the nails because it used to be nailed to the wall. So after that work was done, they were sent to Brussels to be cleaned. After Brexit, we no longer allowed, not us anyone, to send artworks outside the country. So we're quite lucky we have our textile conservator Emma Tilford, who built kind of a at the back of her workshop to be able to also wash our tapestry. So she does absolutely everything from reinstating threads, deep cleans and removing the lining and just removing any oxidisation from nails and relining them, adding Velcro because this is the most important thing as well that we do in the way that we... I reattach in the tapestry or re-hang in the tapestries is with Velcro with a new Velcro system that has also a pooling system. So in case of a fire or in case of having to salvage the tapestries, we can just pool. But more than one person because otherwise that thing will kill you because it's too big. They're very big. But it's a way of conserving the tapestries for a long term. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (20:01) Yeah, yeah, they're pretty big. Carmen Alvarez (20:11) Something very special is that last month we welcomed the very last tapestry, the little tapestry from ⁓ the campaign tapestries of the first Duke of Morborough. The last one from the public side came back from conservation. So we have one more that is currently being conserved from the private side and then after that one more and then the whole set of tapestries, the collections of tapestry will be conserved for the future. So it's a Jonathan Thomas (20:26) wow. Carmen Alvarez (20:41) Yeah, it's a huge achievement and I can't actually put that on me because obviously the previous person in charge, Kate Ballinger, was the one that was overseeing all this. Jonathan Thomas (20:51) I gotta come back and see because when I was there a couple years ago there their tapestries were gone. So some of them were gone. So yeah, I was like, yeah. Carmen Alvarez (20:56) Some of them, yeah, yeah. So now they're back, now they're back, yeah. The public site, all of them are now back and unless, hopefully nothing wrong happens. Now that we don't use fireplaces, candle lights and things like that, there's no that immediate damage. All the light levels are controlled, UV, all these through the windows is now controlled. and we are on top of dust levels. So we shouldn't have to wash the tapestries anytime soon. There's a rotation always depending front back every 20 years, whatever, but hopefully we don't have to do it for another few, few years. Jonathan Thomas (21:35) Time to wash the tapestries. ⁓ So ⁓ moving on from that, let's ⁓ talk about you. ⁓ So how did you start up Lennon Palace and end up where you are now? Because it sounds amazing. Carmen Alvarez (21:36) Yeah, well, but not me. ⁓ Well, as an art historian, I came after uni, masters and working in the industry back in Spain. When I moved to England, I moved to improve my English because I wanted to go back to my country, being able to speak the language. And then I ended up going to a recruitment morning. They used to do that in Blenheim Palace. I was working at the Asmoli Museum back there in Oxford as a room guide. Jonathan Thomas (22:15) ⁓ yeah. Carmen Alvarez (22:20) I'm trying to improve my English and trying to make my way up. And, ⁓ and I went for that recruitment morning at Blenheim and I ended up getting a job as a welcome team, team leader and supervisor, which was more related to customer service, the booking of the guided guided tours and things like that. ⁓ and then I got the chance to start doing a few days here and there with the. the person in charge of the conservation and collection who was Kate Ballinger, Keeper of Palace and Collection, which I love the title. And then she gave me the opportunity and I just worked alongside her for eight years, nine years as her deputy. And then when she decided to move on, I was lucky enough to be offered the new position as a collections and conservation manager. Jonathan Thomas (22:54) Yeah. So how did your transition from the deputy to the head change your perspective on Blenheim's collection? Carmen Alvarez (23:19) ⁓ I ⁓ was very lucky that actually kept me involved from the start in so many things. I was familiar with several responsibilities and she always allowed me to be creative and just to learn to make my own ways and do things. Jonathan Thomas (23:24) Sorry, keep going. Carmen Alvarez (23:46) went, of course I have gained way more responsibility and I received many more emails than I've ever done in my life. But ⁓ I ⁓ was already familiar with the collection, ⁓ as I say, in high level because of her, she allowed me to be that much involved. So ⁓ the transition has been interesting and challenging, but at the same time, I'm very grateful and I hasn't been that shocked or surprised. SOFA. Jonathan Thomas (24:18) Well, that's good. So in the macro. What's the most unexpected discovery you've made about an object in Blenheim's collection during your time there? Carmen Alvarez (24:26) There are a few to be honest, because unfortunately there are so many unknowns related to the collection. Because the documentation around the collection, majority of it, up to the fourth Duke, towards the end of the 18th century, Jonathan Thomas (24:32) Tell them all. Hmm. Carmen Alvarez (24:51) ⁓ all those documents were sent to the British Library so we don't have that easy access to them to be able to research around that. ⁓ having to discover sometimes removing very large portraits that I never thought in my life that I will be able to see up close or because they're very high level or whatever, removing them, discovering at the back that different labels, in the past they went to different exhibitions. Jonathan Thomas (24:55) Hmm. Carmen Alvarez (25:21) around Europe or, or for example, one of the things that I hope to be remembered by is finding, going back to the ladies of Lennam display, finding in storage, uh, Lady Rosemary's, um, uh, dress, um, for the coronation of the Lisa of the second. Uh, cause I remember when I first started going to catalog some clothings in, in the private side and I was told, see if you can find the dress, no one can find it. And I didn't find it that time, but years after when I was with Lady Henrietta doing some organization in the room, I remember seeing something that was similar to what everyone was looking for. And then when we put together another exhibition, I realized, hang on a minute, I'm going to go back. And yes, it was the dress. And funnily enough, everyone thought it was lost, but it was in there all along. Just everyone was picturing it white. And because of course the silk with Jonathan Thomas (26:15) wow. Carmen Alvarez (26:21) the time and sand damage, light damage and everything has turned that ivory color that it was, it turned like very yellow. So, and it was labeled party dress. when people was open the bag always thought there was a different dress. So I found the lost dress. So for me that is, it's something that I hope to be remembered by. Jonathan Thomas (26:40) Ha ha ha. I love it. So can you describe what a typical day in your life is like as the the as managing conservation and all these objects and in such a wonderful place? What's the day in the life like for you? Carmen Alvarez (27:00) So in the morning, first thing is after security up at the palace, just walking through, catching up with the rest of the collections team, all working all together, making sure that everything is fine. There is no, sometimes, know, in three-hand real buildings, you can find water coming through where you don't want to come through. That's where we're doing the roof project. But just making sure that nothing has happened, everything is in place. Jonathan Thomas (27:23) Yeah. Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (27:29) checking the humidifiers, going through the list of things to do with the team and then answering plenty of emails and working on different projects, which is the upgrade and the condition reporting or the catalogue or upcoming exhibitions, future exhibitions and it's just a little bit of everything. because the collections team is part of the operations team. We also work alongside my colleagues from ⁓ events or guest services. So we work very close together. So we support each other. So if I need to move a piano, for example, they will come and help me. And if they need me to step in to cover a room because they are short, we will always do that. So we are very much involved from the operational point of view as well. Jonathan Thomas (28:20) Fascinating it. I'm my favorite genre of British TV show is the fly-on-the-wall documentaries behind the scenes of all these stately homes and I have seen the recent one so I'm curious though. So, you know when the when the house closes for visitors What's it like and in this great house like what happens when the visitors leave? Carmen Alvarez (28:20) you Okay. The first thing, hoovering, to be 100 % honest. This is so important, actually. The guides, the guide and team at Blenheim, they're so wonderful. They're not only knowledgeable, but also they are the ones that when we close the front door, they grab the hoovers and they hoover the whole palace. And this is key to protect the collection, actually. And I say this, yeah, lot of red carpet. And yeah, so this is very important. ⁓ And then more checking. Jonathan Thomas (28:43) Yeah, whoo-ree. ⁓ Wow. It's a lot of carpet. Carmen Alvarez (29:10) to make sure that nothing has got damaged through the day and then just start putting the house to bed until the following day. So that's basically. Jonathan Thomas (29:20) Now, Blenheim is still very much a family home. Does, like, the family use the rest of the house when the visitors leave, or do they kind of just leave it as the museum that it kind of is now? Carmen Alvarez (29:30) No, it's been for many, many years now, what is, as I say, which is distinguished between public and private side. So they have their own quarters and then we have our ⁓ our public side. Although very especially now we have often during the roof project, we have opened some extra rooms in the private side as part of the general tour, the family treasures, we call it. So you can see some extra rooms, very special ones, actually. Jonathan Thomas (29:36) Right. Carmen Alvarez (29:59) So ⁓ yeah, but normally those are very private. So that's why we offer another very unique experience. It's only happening until the scaffolding comes down, basically. I'm so sorry. Jonathan Thomas (30:11) Stop making me want to cum, god. So let's see. ⁓ So now ⁓ this year is actually a milestone year for Blenheim. You guys are celebrating 75 years of public access. So how has approach to conservation and public engagement changed over that period of time? Because I know when phalluses like this were opened in the mid 20th century, was like I kind of out of desperation to kind of save these places. Well now Carmen Alvarez (30:39) Mm-hmm. Jonathan Thomas (30:40) These places are worldwide renowned and they're massive tourist attractions and operations. So what has changed between then and now? Carmen Alvarez (30:49) So much. Funny enough, of the reasons that the palace was opened to begin with was also to gain funds to repair some roof problems. So that's why this is very interesting. But also the things, because of course, maintaining a 300 year old building, you know, it's a difficult, difficult responsibility to deal with. Jonathan Thomas (30:59) The roof. Carmen Alvarez (31:14) So everything has changed so much. from the number of staff that works and looks after the palace, from the gardeners the team has grown compared to how it used to be before, to the park farm. We now have of course more events. The guest services experience, of course, we are definitely now a proper tourist attraction compared to 75 years ago. But in terms of conservation has changed so much because it used to be more like, let's call this group of people from the ground, so here to help us move this table or help us. So it's been an educational journey, not only for us at Blenheim, I bet any historic house, educational journey, the how to do things right from conservation perspective. using gloves, using not harsh chemicals to clean, to polish. So it has been a long way, protecting the light levels from the windows. all ⁓ the donations that we get when our guests purchase the tickets, they really are invested in preserving the place for future generations. And I think that is something that we feel very proud to be part of. And we also at the same time, very, very thankful. ⁓ to be able to do these things to the ⁓ tickets and that our guests purchase and that the donations that they make to as a charity as you know, Blenheim Palace Heritage Foundation. ⁓ yes, so has changed quite a lot from every angle, but I would say something that remains special and the same is that this is still a family home. So, yeah. Jonathan Thomas (33:00) So that's an interesting shift because, know, a hundred years ago, Blenheim would have employed hundreds of people to serve the family and make the house run. And now there's hundreds of people employed to basically save and preserve the house and make it accessible for everyone. So that's quite a, it's quite a shift in purpose and I love it. So. Carmen Alvarez (33:08) Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. Jonathan Thomas (33:22) ⁓ What makes Blenheim's collection unique among Britain's greater historic houses? ⁓ You know, the Chatsworths, the Buckingham Palaces. What are some lesser known treasures that visitors might not expect to see? Carmen Alvarez (33:36) I mean, that's a very difficult question actually, because of course, if compared to other historic houses, they have amazing collections and stories behind it and general history. But ⁓ for us, it's the home of the Churchill and the Spencer Churchill family, think that's something huge. The family has been huge. Jonathan Thomas (33:45) Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (34:01) part, an important part of the history of this nation. I would say that being able to witness where different family members and how they looked and still look after ⁓ the palace and this heritage, ⁓ I think it's just, makes it unique. And in terms of items, ⁓ there are items that were made, a purchase, especially for the place, for the palace, you won't be able to find anywhere in unique, like from, the tapestries that were just purchased to decorate all night the palace walls to furniture or carving, stone carving from Greenland Gibbons which is something very unique so it's just it's full of details. Next year actually is the 300 years anniversary of the death of Sir John Bamber, the architect of Blenheim Palace and we're looking into creating a very special exhibition around this subject but of course Blenheim Palace was one of his creations, unique creations. So it just has so much to offer and the crowns, Capability Brown, so it's just, it's just, yeah, definitely for me as an art historian, I must see. Jonathan Thomas (35:17) For me, mean, ⁓ it's a microcosm of... and it's a fusion of great architecture, great works of art, great history, great landscape design. it's like you could spend a week there and still discover new amazing things to see. Carmen Alvarez (35:21) Mm. Mm. This is exactly why it was given in 1987, the War Heritage Site title, because it has, as you said, have to describe exactly all the aspects that this wonderful place has. Jonathan Thomas (35:50) So you mentioned the Churchill connections and forgive me for asking a Winston Churchill question because it's going to go great on social media. ⁓ what are some things for people to see related to Winston Churchill? Because I know most people know he was born there, but he spent a lot of his life there. So what are some things that a Churchillian would want to see while visiting? Carmen Alvarez (35:53) Mm-hmm. you He loved Blenheim Palace. He said that he made the two best decisions of his life, that Blenheim would want to be born and the other one to marry, because he proposed, Clementine his wife, at the Temple of Diana at Blenheim Palace. So you can see the room where he was born, you can see the Temple of Diana in the grounds, but also we have two very special, one exhibition, a special display, the display of his own paintings as well in the bathroom. which they are kindly on loan from different members of the family as well and we're just very lucky to have them there. But in 2020 we put together a very special exhibition downstairs, just off to the undercroft of the palace. which is included in the general ticket. what it makes it special is all around Winston Churchill, but it's all around Winston Churchill and his life related to Blenheim Palace, because you can learn about Winston, as you know. So Winston Churchill in London, you know, that you go to wonderful places. You can go to Chartwell if no one has been there, recommended a wonderful property and beautiful things to see around his figure. I would say that our uniqueness is that relationship that he had as a member of the family with the place, with ⁓ his grandfather, the 7th Duke of Mulvur and called the 8th and cousin the 9th Duke of Mulvur in a special relationship that he had with the American 9th Duchess Consuelo of Vanderbilt Because as we know, his mom Jenny Jerome was also American. He had wonderful stories there, speeches and so it's all we wanted to do with that exhibition is highlight that connection and his life at Blenheim Palace, the place that he really loved. if anyone wants to come and learn about that aspect, we definitely have the place to do so. Jonathan Thomas (38:05) And I did see that exhibition when I visited a couple of years ago and I can highly recommend it is worth visiting for churchillians. So definitely take, definitely take a look. It's a lots of great artifacts and I was, I was very happy when I left. So, so what you mentioned that it's a UNESCO world heritage site. So what does that mean for a place like Blenheim? What does that, what like, what does, that bring extra visitors or extra conf? Carmen Alvarez (38:12) That's great. Thank you. ⁓ great, thank you so much. Mm-hmm. Jonathan Thomas (38:35) conservation work or what does that mean? Carmen Alvarez (38:37) Yes and no. mean if you're a fan of World Heritage sites and you make a list to complete them all, maybe yes. But no, means that we tick all the boxes. As you mentioned earlier, we have all these wonderful things to see inside, outside the building. And from conservation perspective, either of you are World Heritage site or not, we have a responsibility, regardless. Jonathan Thomas (38:45) Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (39:04) Because I'm a believer that heritage does not believe to one single person or a group of people. Heritage is something that is a witness of the past, of the history of a group, a nation. So for me it's something that if we are in this business, we have the responsibility, we are custodians of it, so we definitely need to conserve it. regardless, that's why the business is operating as it operates with all the events that we have and everything that we do to be able to maintain this place with a roof, with a bridge, with the gardens as they are. So the responsibility is there regardless you're wall hurt inside or not. Jonathan Thomas (39:51) So let's talk about the roof project. Now what exactly are they doing? I mean, cause are they just like doing spot repairs or are they replacing the whole roof or? Carmen Alvarez (39:59) No, that I'm not the right person to talk about every single detail because my colleagues from the Bill Heritage are the ones managing it and they're doing a fantastic job. But basically there were so many wrong repairs throughout history that led, not led and you know all holes and we had water coming through in a very bad way from the beams. So basically they're just repairing and redoing the parts of the roof that were actually in... Jonathan Thomas (40:07) Hmm. Carmen Alvarez (40:28) pretty poor condition. It's incredible sometimes when ⁓ I went up there between the Thornhill painting and the actual roof, there is a room of beams. I don't know how to describe it. I remember going there when they're twice and I was shocked because you walk into the building and you think, my God, this is place is incredible. It's so well preserved. And you think, you know, all this money and whatever. But you would never know. how many buckets were holding the lakes, the water filtration coming from the actual roof. And the problem is when it snowed or when you'd never know you're going to have a swimming pool in the Grey Hall, which is just never now, which is a high risk. And that's why my colleagues from Bill Heritage have gone through, you know. Jonathan Thomas (41:03) cut. Alright. Carmen Alvarez (41:20) everything to be able to, to, to prove that that, we knew and, and our senior management and trustees knew, and they've been supporting absolutely everything all the way. But of course it wasn't a cheap thing to do, as you can imagine, it's nearly 12 million pounds. so, but it needs to be done. As we said, we are here doing that and with the support of our trustees and senior management and the whole Blenheim team and our guests, this is a huge. Jonathan Thomas (41:33) No. Carmen Alvarez (41:50) effort from everyone that loves and respects Blen and Pala, so we appreciate it. Jonathan Thomas (41:56) So how long is it expected to take? Carmen Alvarez (41:58) So I think scaffolding will start coming down next year. So obviously it's not a six month project, just the building of the scaffolding alone and taking it down is just probably a bit more of a maverick. But we're also very lucky that we work with great contractors. doing a fantastic job. yeah. Jonathan Thomas (42:07) Yeah, yeah Carmen Alvarez (42:17) Next year, next summer, think hopefully things will start coming down. The front and back of the palace, the scaffolding will come down earlier, but then we have the internal scaffolding for the wall paintings Thorinhill and Ruy Laguerre, which they also have been conserved and I cannot wait to see that. Jonathan Thomas (42:36) Well, and I would encourage people to visit anyway, despite there being scaffolding, because early in my travel days, I used to be really disappointed when scaffolding was up. like, ⁓ it's going to ruin the pictures. But now, now that I know what goes into heritage and conservation, it's like the scaffolding is a good thing because it's saving these things for generations to come. And yeah. Carmen Alvarez (42:40) yes. It is. You're just witnessing and actually you can have an idea how the palace was built because of that. And one thing that we're doing just to make worth it having the scaffolding is the rooftop experience. So now as a guest with your ticket, not paying anything extra, you can go all the way up and there is a platform where you can see the north side and all the details on the rooftop and the work taking place. So you can actually. Jonathan Thomas (43:00) Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (43:21) be a little bit more involved in what is going on at the moment. ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (43:25) That's really cool. That's really cool that you guys did that because it's seeing the heritage in action and it's fascinating because I come from a country where nothing is old. if something needs to be fixed, you knock it down and build a new one. But the scenes, yeah, you can't do that at a 300-year-old UNESCO World Heritage Site. Carmen Alvarez (43:39) Now I do cat doona. To be honest, I come from a country that even all things one takes, too many years back they also used to tear them down. Jonathan Thomas (43:54) Yeah, not good. So for my final question, looking ahead, and you mentioned the Vanburgh 300th anniversary of his death, what other ⁓ exciting discoveries or projects are coming up for London Palace for the public in the coming years? Carmen Alvarez (44:09) So we are looking into different projects at the moment. Some of them, I cannot say just in case they don't happen. But the way that we like to take on projects, ⁓ exhibitions especially, we want to do it in a way that we know our guests are gonna enjoy. So we love... ⁓ Jonathan Thomas (44:19) you Carmen Alvarez (44:38) be accurate and historically accurate always and that's important but we also need to make sure that we do that in a way that is going to reach as many guests as possible and they're going to enjoy the journey. So we as you say we've got Vanburgh 300 we're trying to look into different kind of maybe more immersive more we'll see we'll see but we are looking into different options how to bring how to share the history of Blenheim in different ways. Rather than a printed board, let's do it in a different way. We can have the printed board because we also love to be accessible for everyone, but how can we do all this in a very effective way? just, yeah, just stay tuned basically. Jonathan Thomas (45:27) Making it more theatrical, right? Yeah, I spoke to the woman who curates at Jane Austen's house. She had a theater background and mentioned how they made the visitor experience more theatrical by piping in noise and making it feel like you just kind of walked in and the people who kind of just left the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Carmen Alvarez (45:29) Yeah. wow. Yeah, we love it. People love it. We recently opened our Victorian kitchens downstairs and we did that as well. You can walk into the Victorian kitchen and hear the butler, the head of housemates and people absolutely love it. Because again, it's reachable. It's just more accessible for everyone. Correct. Jonathan Thomas (45:53) Mmm. Love it. humanizes it. So anything related to Winston Churchill coming up that you can hint at? Carmen Alvarez (46:15) I don't think at the moment we have anything, but we always, to be honest, we always have ⁓ new paintings coming in and on loaned and the come and go. We have his travel, traveling easel on loan from Chartwell is going back next year. So if you want to see it in the room, display, just come and see us. Otherwise go to Chartwell next year. But we always. Jonathan Thomas (46:25) Yeah. Carmen Alvarez (46:42) Winston Churchill is always a big part of who we are and we always highlight this in every possible way we can. Books, manuscripts, anything that we can put on display. Jonathan Thomas (46:58) Well, what a fascinating discussion this has been. Thank you so much for joining us on the Anglotopia podcast, Carmen. We will link to Blenheim Palace's website and information on both the Ladies of Blenheim exhibition and the Meet the Collections experience in the show notes. And if you're planning to visit these new offerings run through August and October respectively. And if you enjoyed this episode of the Anglotopia podcast, please subscribe, like or comment. And if you like the Anglotopia podcast, please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia club. where you can get early access to new episodes and connect with other Britain enthusiasts and support great long form writing about Britain. Join us next time as we continue exploring the people, places and stories that make Britain's cultural heritage so endlessly fascinating to discover. Thank you so much, Carmen. Carmen Alvarez (47:40) Thank you so much for having me.