Jonathan Thomas (00:12)
Welcome to the Anglotopia podcast where we explore British history, travel and culture. This week, we're doing something a little different as we sit down with someone who has turned her lifelong passion for Britain into a thriving business, helping other Anglophiles discover the magic of the British Isles. I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. And today I'm joined by Mary Valentine, founder of Mary Valentine Tours, a boutique travel company specializing

and small group experiences across England, Scotland, and Wales. Mary has been leading intimate tours for fellow Anglophiles sharing hidden gems and insider access that you simply can't get on your own or with larger tour groups. From exploring stately homes and gardens to discovering charming villages off the beaten path, her tours are designed for those who want to experience Britain through the eyes of someone who truly understands what makes these islands so captivating.

Having just returned from another successful tour, Mary brings firsthand insights into what it's like to share Britain's wonders with fellow enthusiasts, how she's built relationships with local contacts to provide unique experiences, and what it means to turn your Anglophile obsession into your life's work. We'll explore her journey from passionate traveler to professional guide, discuss some of the magical moments from her recent tour, and get her insider perspective on the best ways to experience authentic British culture.

Full disclosure, while Mary is an Engeltopia sponsor, she has not paid to be on the Engeltopia podcast. I wanted to have her on as a guest since we met. So welcome Mary.

Mary Valentine (01:43)
Thank you. Thank you very much.

Jonathan Thomas (01:46)
So, ⁓ Tabla Angle Topia listeners, a little about your background and how you ended up with the connection to the famous Calendar Girls. Cause you told me about this and I was blown away. ⁓

Mary Valentine (01:58)
Well, it's

not a direct path. It's kind of a winding one. ⁓ I was for several decades a professor of sociology and women's And with reference to women's studies, I spent a lot of my time researching and talking about women's organizations. And in the process, I discovered the Women's Institute, which is England's oldest and largest women's organization.

during World War II and had a half million members, more recently about 300,000. But they're scattered all across England and parts of Scotland and even parts of Wales, and they're village based. So as I was researching them, lo and behold, ⁓ I not only joined it, but it was the same time at which the calendar girls famous calendar, which I just happened to have here with me at this moment when it first came out.

And I read about it in the United States that there was this group of strange women up in the North Yorkshire Dales who were all members of the WI and had produced a new calendar to raise money for leukemia research. And I thought, well, this is just another excuse for me to go to England. I've got to go meet these women. So I did. And we became very close friends. I got to go to the world premiere of Calendar Girls at Leicester Square when ⁓ the film

Jonathan Thomas (03:13)
Hahaha

Mary Valentine (03:25)
premiered in LA, they came and stayed with me. ⁓ And so I built up a friendship with them over the years. And that led to amazing adventures, because when they would go on junkets, I'd get to go with them. So I became their groupie. And I wound up publishing papers and speaking at Cambridge, for example, about my research on the meaning of this organization and its power, even though most Brits don't know very much about it, or they sort of poo poo it.

⁓ I came to the conclusion it was a really valuable fundamental part of the English society structure. So that's how I got to know the calendar girls. And when I led my first tour, which we'll talk about I think in a few minutes, one of the things I did was to take them to meet them. And we went to the house where all the photos were taken and where the photographer and his wife, Ms. July, lived. And everyone on our tour got their picture taken.

and you could wear as little or as much clothing as you wanted. And I would say that our tour group revealed themselves in some amazing ways. But the lesson I came away with from all of this was this may be the way to run a tour, not to run naked as a tour, but rather to come up with something other tours don't offer. Because I can't compete with Rick Steves, nor do I want to. I can't compete with Fodor. I have to provide something that other tours

Jonathan Thomas (04:25)
Ha

Ha

Mary Valentine (04:52)
can't or won't provide. And so the first example of that was our photo session with the calendar girls photographer.

Jonathan Thomas (05:00)
What a journey there. I I'll link to the movie in the show notes for those not familiar with it, but it's one of those delightful 90s British comedies that really tell, yeah.

Mary Valentine (05:09)
Yes. Yes, with Helen Mirren and a lot of

British actresses, whose names we may not know, but who will recognize who are in British TV series now.

Jonathan Thomas (05:19)
Yeah.

Yeah,

well, you managed to answer my first and second questions in one go. So well done, well done there. So what was the moment you realized that you could turn this passion for Britain into a tour of business? there, other than the calendar girls, was there a specific experience that made you think, I want to do this for other people?

Mary Valentine (05:28)
Alright.

Well, I think I'd always wanted to do this for other people, not thinking of it as a business. My friends knew that I went to England a lot and came back raving about it. And so when they were getting ready to go, they come to me and say, where should we go? What should we see? And so I'd sit down and kind of map out itineraries for them, you know, just because they were my friends. ⁓ So at the time, I didn't think at all about it becoming a business operation. I was busy teaching women's studies, but

I went to a conference of women philanthropists. was invited to come and speak. And in talking to the group, I mentioned my travels in England. And when the session was over, a woman came up to me and said, you sound like you have fun on your trips. And I said, I have so much fun. I just, I love it there. And I started getting all worked up again. And she said, well, do you ever lead tours there? And I said, no, no. mean, I've taken friends, but no, I don't.

She said, would you leave a tour? And I said, well, I mean, I would, but I don't think I could find enough people to go to make it financially solvent. And she said, don't worry, I'll take care of that. And she did. And within six months, we had 14 people on our coach and we were zooming around England. So when that tour was over, and that's the one that included the calendar girls' photography, ⁓

several people came up to me and said, this was so great, we need to do it again. Would you do it again? And that I think was when that kind of light bulb moment occurred, when I thought, well, you know, I won't always be teaching college students. There may come a point where, you know, I just won't be doing that. Maybe I need to do something else. And so that's when the idea first came to me. And then we began building and just built upon it each year. So.

The first tour we did was in 2007. And the last tour we did was four days ago. So we've done it most years except for COVID. We have gone places, sometimes two or three tours a year.

Jonathan Thomas (07:45)
Hahaha.

Yeah.

That's the way to do it at small groups. ⁓ Focus on a key destination and making it more experiential. We've interviewed a lot of people lately who are really big advocates of experiential travel. And that's we are as well that, you know, it's not just enough to travel somewhere and tick all the boxes of all the tourist attractions. You want to have an experience and that those are more memorable than just seeing Stonehenge.

Mary Valentine (08:21)
Well, actually, I

started with an assumption that I still work with, and that is that the people who come on my tours have already been to England. They've already seen the Tower of London. They've already seen the London Eye. You know, they've already seen all the stuff tourists are supposed to see. So if they're coming with me, I need to help them experience things they won't see on a regular tour. And that's not to put those tours down. It's just to say, I do something different.

Jonathan Thomas (08:48)
Right. So I want to know a little more about your background. On your website, you describe yourself as having been an Anglophile since childhood. What first sparked your fascination? Was it a book, a TV show, or family connections, or was it all of the above?

Mary Valentine (09:02)
was a TV show.

It was a TV show. I know you've lived in California for a while and you may not remember there used to be something called Channel 9 and it was a local television station. This is back in the days of black and white TV sets. And every night at 8.45 they showed a 15 minute Sherlock Holmes story. And so I was allowed to stay up and watch until the end of Sherlock Holmes.

I fell in love with the idea of Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Watson and their wonderful little apartment or flat and the horse-cadron carriages and the mysteries. sell whole thing. I loved. that was the beginning. And then I think for my 13th birthday, I asked my parents to buy me the complete volume of Sherlock Holmes stories, which I still have.

And that summer I sat down and I read from page one to page 835, wherever it ended. So I had read them all. Meanwhile, ⁓ on television, I had caught Mrs. Miniver with Greer-Garson and real tearjerker about World War II. And I began watching other British things. And about the same time, somebody, older friend whom I looked up to recommended to me that I read Jane Eyre.

And I thought, well, okay, so I'll read that. Well, that, you know, just whetted my appetite. And then I stumbled on Jane Austen and that just spiraled out of control. I was so excited. ⁓ And so it was television and movies and literature that all said to me, I need to go there someday.

Jonathan Thomas (10:41)
When did you first go to Britain?

Mary Valentine (10:43)
I didn't go until I was 44. And the reason I went then, I couldn't afford to go before then. And even when I went, I couldn't really afford it. But my daughter had just graduated from UC Berkeley and she had been given what's called the Marshall Scholarship, which is a scholarship the British people give to so many, I don't know, 12 or 15 students every year to thank the United States for the Marshall Plan. Okay.

My daughter won that scholarship and so she went to Oxford for two years. So knowing that she was going to go, said, well, I'm going to because I have to see where you're living. And it's not fair that my daughter can live in England and I can't. So that was the first time I went to England and that would have been in 1988. So that was my first trip, but not my last. And now I've been more than 50 times.

Jonathan Thomas (11:36)
⁓ you've clocked higher numbers than me, so I'm jealous now. Yeah, I remember a long time ago, ⁓ I connected with a local history teacher who had written some books and we had lunch together. And he was telling me that, because he was a teacher and ⁓ through Kenny collection of airfare miles and the fact that he was off in the summers, he

Mary Valentine (11:39)
All right. But it's not a copy.

Jonathan Thomas (12:05)
And he got various opportunities just as a history teacher. He went he had told me he had been to England like 112 times and I'm like, I'm like, I've got some work to do to catch up.

Mary Valentine (12:12)
⁓ wow.

But it'll be worth it.

Jonathan Thomas (12:21)
Yeah, so I get my I get my numbers up so mrs. Anglotopia if you're listening I gotta get my numbers up Let's talk about the current tour that you just did you just returned from a tour? and You know, what was what was the arc of the tour? What did you guys see and do and and what was the experience like and then we'll maybe we'll talk more about the tour after that

Mary Valentine (12:25)
All right.

This this

was a little unusual in in the sense that for the first time I didn't start the tour in London. This was a tour that focused on northern England and Scotland, so people flew into Heathrow and our driver with his coach came and picked us up at Heathrow and off we went. So we headed north. ⁓ Stopped in a couple places before we got to Scotland, so did a night in. ⁓

Jonathan Thomas (12:49)
Okay.

Mary Valentine (13:10)
the Lake District and the Cotswolds later on and so on. So we did some time, some days in England, kind of as a step to get us up north, because those are long distances. And then we spent four or five days in Scotland ⁓ and then came back down, returning to ⁓ Heathrow again. ⁓ A lot of things to see in the National Justice Museum was something I had never been to before and well worth seeing.

That's in Nottingham. So we had made a stop there. We also stopped on our way up to Scotland in a little village called Perrone, which had beautiful little hotel and of all things, the two-star Michelin restaurant tucked into this obscure little village. ⁓ So we stopped to do that as we headed north. And ⁓ the other thing we did, which was really fun,

was to go to an exhibit called the James Herriot, The Wonderful World of James Herriot. And it's an exhibit in Thursk, England, ⁓ all about the all creatures great and small. So they've reconstructed the office there, his house. ⁓ And so you can wander through and it looks like he was just there yesterday and there's stuff scattered all over the place. ⁓ Really well done, really, really well done. So anyone who's a fan of all creatures great and small, that's a place.

they really ought to go because they will recognize everything there and get in the mood. So from there, we went up to Scotland and we spent a couple days in Edinburgh and a couple days in Glasgow. We stopped in Stirling. ⁓

and then headed back south again and went through the Cotswolds on the way home so everyone could say they'd been to Stow-on-the-Wold and Morton-in-the-Marsh, ⁓ some of the great names of villages in England. ⁓ And ⁓ it was just, it was a good time. Everything gelled well. We had one accident, so one person was injured, but we barreled through that. So it was a great time.

Jonathan Thomas (15:18)
So do you guys have like your own coach that kind of sticks with you the entire trip?

Mary Valentine (15:23)
Yes, what I do, I've learned to do this is we hire a coach for 10 days or whatever period of time there is. depending upon the size of our group, may have to have two drivers, otherwise one. And that's because of the safety laws in England. If you have more than, I think it's nine people, eight or nine people in your coach, they limit the number of hours you can drive per day and the number of work breaks that you should have.

⁓ which means that and you can only work six days in a row. So if you've got a 10 day tour and you've got a large group, then it's day six, a second driver has to come and take over. I have learned more about this than I ever wanted to know. ⁓ But we had a small group this time, so we had the same driver from day one through day 10. ⁓ And I'll tell you later about the importance of the driver because that's the great discovery I've But yes, we had a

us like a people mover, think the British call them. And so we fit into that nicely and often.

Jonathan Thomas (16:28)
So were there any particularly magical moments or experiences that you guys either didn't plan to have or planned to have that were wonderful?

Mary Valentine (16:38)
⁓ for me personally, there was a magical moment. At one point during the trip, one of the people fell and hurt himself rather badly, but in apologizing to all of us, which he didn't need to do, he said, I had planned this to be the tour of a lifetime for my wife. Also, of I'm getting choked up about that. And here he was injured and he was worried because going to, you know, right there, wreck things and so on. It didn't wreck them at all. But.

At the end of the jury, he turned to me and he said it worked. And for me, that was magical. know, that even despite the fact he'd injured himself, this was the tour of a lifetime for him. So that for me was very, very magical. ⁓ You know, and from what he said, I think it was for him too.

Jonathan Thomas (17:14)
nice.

So I know you probably can't give too much detail about it, but I'm curious to know. So you had an emergency situation while on tour. Did the person have to avail themselves of the NHS or did they have insurance that covered everything? How does something like that work when you're traveling on a tour?

Mary Valentine (17:39)
Right.

Okay,

yeah, well, to me that question all starts before the tour begins because I say to everyone, you must buy travel insurance. I can't force you to, but I can't give you better advice either. Buy travel insurance. And two or three times in past years, I've had someone who became ill and I had one person who had to be medevaced out of England and flown back to Northern California. And I've said to people, I won't tell you what company to go with, but know, shop around, but.

Jonathan Thomas (17:55)
Yeah.

Mary Valentine (18:15)
please get travel insurance. This couple had it, so that was not an issue for them. And fortunately, the hero of this story was our driver, because when the man fell, we saw that he was seriously hurt, the driver said, I will take him to the hospital. So the man fell and his wife and our driver went to the hospital, went to the emergency room. Our driver stayed with them for seven or eight hours until they were seen. So that was fantastic because...

It allowed me then to lead the rest of the group, get us back on schedule where we're going. ⁓ My experience in the past has been I need to have one other adult there who is my backup. So that when something like this happens, I can say to that person, take the group and go forward or stay with the person who's injured. ⁓ If I'm by myself, it's really hard to do that. And so you don't know what to do. Do I hold everything?

Will we wait to see what the story is or do I make this poor person go to the hospital alone? And that's not a good alternative. ⁓ So the practice I have and our driver was particularly helpful, but my general rule is have one other person. So I've got a friend who comes sometimes and I have a sister who's been through the tour several times and they're there amongst other things to deal with an emergency. ⁓ I have to say.

I know that the British grumble about this, but I can't say enough good things about the NHS. They were so helpful and so great. They offered to perform surgery on this man, and he said, no, I want to have surgery at home. So they bandaged him up, gave him crutches, put a brace on his leg and said there will be no charge. know what I can't even begin to describe the awe I hold them in for that given what the cost of medical care.

Jonathan Thomas (20:03)
No.

Mary Valentine (20:10)
year would be for that process.

Jonathan Thomas (20:11)
Yeah,

I can only imagine the bill he got when he came home.

Mary Valentine (20:15)
Yeah.

Jonathan Thomas (20:15)
So, well, I'm glad that everything worked out and he was able to be.

Mary Valentine (20:20)
Yeah, well, and we just

heard today he doesn't have to have surgery, but he does have to be on bed rest for 12 days. So that's better than surgery, I think. Exactly.

Jonathan Thomas (20:28)
Tell them to take it easy.

So ⁓ that also kind of answered my next question. How do you handle when something doesn't go according to plan? It sounds like you handle it very well. So that's super interesting. You never know what's gonna happen during these things.

Mary Valentine (20:42)
Well.

You never know

what's going to happen. I always have some backup plans for the big things. So if we're going on a riverboat, crow goose, and it's coming down in buckets of rain, I'll have a backup plan. Let's say we're going to go to the local museum and look at an exhibit. We're just staying out of the dry. I will tell you the secret, and I know that was one of the things you wanted to ask me, but did I have secret tricks? And my best secret trick is

make friends with your driver because your driver has been all over for years to all kinds of locations. Your driver usually has a family that goes on vacations. I want to know where the driver takes that family or your driver has seen stuff while delivering groups, you know, doing post-training and they know stuff. So there was one time I don't even remember where we were going, but something kind of fell apart and I just turned to the driver and said, I'm

I need something for us to do for an hour and a half. He said, okay, leave it to me. And he took us to a pub in a section of London I'd never been in before. It was a great, great experience. We went in, had a fantastic time and people didn't miss what we hadn't done. And I thought, be friends with your driver because the driver knows things you don't know. ⁓

Jonathan Thomas (22:10)
Well, and that brings up an interesting point and something I've talked to lot of British people about is ⁓ British people travel around their country in a very different way than American tourists travel around their country. And American tourists tend to gravitate towards specific places, things or experiences. Whereas for Brits, this is their home and they have different desires and things to see and do. And oftentimes,

It's where those differences can sort of collide that you have the most interesting experiences because you do do things that aren't typically on the tourist trail, you know, that aren't typical that American tourists do. And then you have the most wonderful experiences.

So what has been the general reaction from your group when they experience something quintessentially British for the first time, like when they visit a village or visit a famous site that they'd only seen in books before?

Mary Valentine (23:08)
Well,

they seem to go into shock, you know, at how beautiful it is. And I've thought about that a lot. And I thought in my own case, you know, I grew up in the 50s and 60s. And so my memory and understanding of England was from black and white television. And it was often shows talking about the war and the impact of the war. And so I grew up kind of thinking of England as being this great place. And when I got there,

It's not gray at all. You go out in the countryside and you've never seen such an intense shade of green and so on. And I think that's true for a lot of Americans who come there. They're just not prepared for how beautiful it is. You know, they're kind of prepared that London's one of the big cities of the world. And so it's going to be like a big city with noise and cabs and so on. But they're not prepared for how incredibly beautiful the countryside is. ⁓ So I think that's one of the.

you know, moments. ⁓ And I think they're also not prepared for how decent, it's not the right word, I want something stronger, how wonderful the people are. ⁓ My experience is, even if the Brits think we're crazy, and they may have good reason for thinking that, you know, and we're not the most popular nation in the world at the moment, British people go out of their way to be courteous and thoughtful. ⁓

I can think of times when I've been there on my own driving and I've gotten lost or I can't find where the turn is and I'll stop and ask somebody and they'll usually give me two or three different sets of directions. And then they'll say, well, just follow me. They're not going that way, but they go that way so I can follow them and they can get me there. And they seem to be startled that I'm there too. It's like, oh yeah.

Jonathan Thomas (24:44)
Ha ha ha.

Mary Valentine (24:54)
you've come from California to our village. And I'll tell you, you know, I came because I wanted to see such and such or I heard such and such and so on. And so I think there's a lot of we see out in the countryside, a lot of kind of mutual surprise about things with each other.

Jonathan Thomas (25:13)
Yeah, and I can say in the countryside, I've almost never had a negative cultural experience. People have always been warm and welcoming. And like you said, they're very curious to know why on earth you've come there. Because it's like, you know, sometimes going to a small town or village is the equivalent of going to, you know, the middle of nowhere in Indiana or Illinois. They're like, why did you come here? There's nothing here.

Mary Valentine (25:27)
Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you think is here? It's just us and our cows, you know. Yeah. Well, and again, I talked earlier about the Women's Institute and one of the amazing things about that organization is it's village based. And so there is a national headquarters, but all the chapters of the WI are in small villages and ⁓ they do amazing things I've discovered in those villages.

Jonathan Thomas (25:42)
Exactly.

Mary Valentine (26:03)
absolutely amazing things they put on plays, they put on musicals, they have this know methods of going off and helping new mothers and so on. They're like this beehive of activity all kind of hidden under the surface of nothing goes on here and they're just remarkable people and one of the things I do on some of the tours is I will take the tour group to a WI meeting which is a whole cultural experience unto itself.

because you start with greetings and people who sent a message, I can't be here tonight. And then we'll have a program, we'll have a speaker and those speakers are extraordinary. I learned a lot about photography from one of the WI speakers one week. Then we'll have our period of tea and you know, for a dime or a 10 pence, we'll have a cup of tea and a biscuit. And then maybe if we're really old time, we'll sing at Jerusalem. But if we feel like we're a much more modern WI, we won't.

Jonathan Thomas (27:00)
haha

Mary Valentine (27:03)
But I'm always being introduced when I've got a group there. Sometimes I'm asked to judge the flower contest for the month, which it makes me very nervous because I have no expertise or they'll have a special project, create a diorama illustrating blah, blah. And I'm called upon to judge it because I'm the guest of the evening. I don't know what to do, but they're so gracious and thanking me and so on. That's a part of England you don't get to see with Rick Steves.

Jonathan Thomas (27:03)
You

Mary Valentine (27:31)
You don't get into WI meetings. And one month, I remember on one tour we went and the program for the evening in this village was the Gardener's Question Hour. Well, if you spent any time in England, had the radio on, know, Gardener's Question Hour is very important. And here they were live in front of us and nobody else in the group besides me knew who they were. And so I'm trying to whisper, you know, this is why this is important. This is a British institution. so and

And our group is thinking, why are these people asking questions about rutabagas or whatever? you know, it was a difference in culture and it was really important. And to this day, the people on that tour still talk about that night and Gardner's Question Hour. So there are wonderful things to be had if you know where to find them inside these villages.

Jonathan Thomas (28:15)
you

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I kind of advocate if you're going to travel to Britain a lot, pick a town or a village and make it your surrogate hometown because then you can sort of become a part of that cultural life that these rich cultural life that these towns have. And frankly, I think that's the appeal of lot of British travel for a lot of people and a lot of Anglophiles is

In many towns and cities in the U S we don't have that civic or cultural life anymore where we used to have it 30 or 40 or 50 years ago. Now we don't have it as much anymore, but in England, you know, every, every village has an arts club and a, and a, and a local community theater and you know, has, has a lot. Yeah. All that's all that like quaint stuff is still there and that's nice. And they, and not only that they fight for the survival of those things. They want to keep them.

Mary Valentine (29:08)
It's still there.

Jonathan Thomas (29:19)
So they make sure that they get funded and they make sure that they get supported. And I think, you know, not to get into the weeds, but the collapse of civic life like that has led to a lot of problems here that are current problems, you know? So, yeah.

Mary Valentine (29:29)
Right. All right.

Well, you know,

I always try to contact them in advance as a courtesy and explain, I'm a WI member. Well, that's rosy. ⁓ are you the president of the WI in the United States? And I'll say, no, I am the WI in the United States. I'm the only one. But I will contact them ahead of time and say, I'm bringing a small group in this day and I know it would be all right if we came and sat in. And they always say, yes, of course. So one year I was in the Cotswolds and

We had gotten there early and we were out in the square. And often there will be a box with a glass panel in front of it with announcements, local announcements. I just went over to see what's going on and I found a sign that said, Tuesday night, Mary Valentine will be here. It was this big headline. Princess Kate will be here or something. So I came in, it was like here she, and they had prepared some lavish spread for all of us. And it was just the sweetest thing. Like we were somehow,

important, but we were to them because we were people who were interested in them. And so I have learned a lot from the time I've spent in villages.

Jonathan Thomas (30:42)
So

how does one become the only WI member in the USA?

Mary Valentine (30:47)
Well, I

just called them up. No, I guess I was in London one day and I went to the national headquarters and I said, can I join? Well, that threw them into a bit of a tizzy because nobody from the US had ever done that before. And they said, well, well, we think you could. We don't know any reason why you couldn't. And so I said, OK, how much will you, you know, I'm willing to pay my dues or my subs as they say. So that

led to another discussion of what would we pay someone who was a member who didn't live here and who's only here a few weeks. We got that figured out. so that was maybe 20 years ago I did that. And ⁓ I guess anybody else could, I think there is a way now to online because they kept up with the times online you can join as an associate member now. So you don't have to be the lone American member anymore.

Jonathan Thomas (31:42)
Yeah, I know the like, ⁓ you know, Americans can join the National Trust sort of if you join the Royal Oak Foundation. But you know, you can't directly join a National Trust. can't directly join English Heritage. But it's nice to know that the WI will let you in. ⁓ So speaking of change and modernity, Britain has changed a lot over the decades that you've been running these tours and that you've been traveling there. How do you balance

Mary Valentine (31:49)
sort of.

Yeah.

Jonathan Thomas (32:11)
showing visitors the traditional storybook Britain that they might expect, but also show them a modern country.

Mary Valentine (32:19)
Well, I usually start the tour in London. As I said, this last one was unusual because I didn't. But what we'll do in London is we'll go to some new restaurant. And at the same time, then that same day or the following morning, we'll go over to the Foundling Museum, which is still living the consequences of 100 years or more ago. So I try to show them that even in one of the leading cities in the world, you've got this amazing

respect for history at the same time you're modernizing. Out in the countryside, would say the change I've noticed is when I first started going there, nobody had ⁓ Wi-Fi, nobody was on the internet. When I tried to a room or a stay, I would either have to write letters and wait for weeks for a response or invest big money in making the phone call because at that time it was really expensive to call England. ⁓

So that's no longer necessary. You now with WhatsApp and all the technology, I find that people in the countryside are very comfortable with it. You know, and maybe the same reason that people here become comfortable if their kids in school are learning that way and the kids teach the parents or the grandparents or whatever. But I think there's a real contrast if you're in London one day and that night or the next day you're in Burton on the water.

or you're in stone mold or whatever, it's dramatic. But you see both are existing simultaneously. And London is never going to get rid of its listed buildings. They will always be there because they have such a respect for history. But at the same token, you know, I know you were there fairly recently. If you just look around the city, the buildings that are going up, the architecture has changed. It's a very modern looking city in many ways.

So I like to show that to people that there's no simple description of what it is. It's become more complicated in recent decades.

Jonathan Thomas (34:26)
I know when we publish articles about modern architecture and London people inevitably complain about it. And all I can say to that is that's the same thing they were saying a hundred years ago about Victorian architecture or about the Edwardian architecture is that we don't like this modern stuff, but now those buildings are treasured parts of the built landscape. attitudes to architecture change. Even people

Mary Valentine (34:41)
Yep.

Absolutely. ⁓

Jonathan Thomas (34:56)
People are even coming around on concrete brutalism. you know, it's an acquired taste. So, ⁓ what's something about British culture that even seasoned Anglophiles like us don't know or appreciate until they experience it firsthand?

Mary Valentine (34:59)
That will be the day.

I would say one thing that comes to mind is my explaining to people what the Aga is about and where the Aga stoves came from. And if I do it with my tour group, because we're going through a place and there's an Aga there and they wonder what is that? I'm trying to explain it. And I tell the story about the blind man who invented it and he invented it so he could cook and not burn himself. So there's no open flame. You've got the hot oven and then you've got the less hot oven and you've got the two.

looks like waffle makers up on the top. It's safe for a blind person. So I explained that. And once you know that it makes sense, that's why that was done. Invariably, there will be a British person standing by who will say, I never knew that. So every once in a while, I'm able to share a tidbit of information that the locals don't know.

Jonathan Thomas (35:59)
Hahaha

on everybody wants an Aga once they've once they've seen an experienced one that's you

Mary Valentine (36:12)
I know,

I know. stayed with some friends, one of the calendar girls actually, for several weeks a few years ago. And she cooked every day, every meal on the aga. It was just fascinating to watch. You know, she said, well, it makes it has a learning curve. I'm sure it does. But I always would Americans say, particularly Californians say, I'd love to have one of those. I said, no, you won't because number one, are obscenely expensive.

Jonathan Thomas (36:24)
It's really hard.

Yeah, yeah, we are.

be hot all day.

Mary Valentine (36:40)
And number two, if you're living in LA, you do not want a stove that is on all the time because it is hot, you know, and with the old ones, I think they have a different method of heating them now. But the old ones, you know, that was hot oil that was pumped in continuously. the stove was never cold. And I said, living in LA, if you could afford it, you don't want that in your home as gorgeous as it is and as much of a status symbol as it is.

Jonathan Thomas (37:07)
Yeah. ⁓ ironic. is ironically, I was in Ireland for, for business a few years ago and the cottage we stayed in in Ireland had an Aga and so Mrs. Angle, Toby, I had a lot of fun learning how to cook on one to varying degrees of success. Yeah, it's definitely a challenge and it definitely keeps those cottage, those cold cottages warm in the winter.

Mary Valentine (37:27)
And frustration, I would assume.

Jonathan Thomas (37:37)
So, you've been visiting Britain for years. Are there still places or experiences that surprise you?

Mary Valentine (37:45)
Oh yeah, I'm always surprised by things, know, or things they haven't thought about. I went to Wales a couple years ago for the first time, and I think I had a warped sense of what Wales was going to be like. I had no idea it was going to be so beautiful. I went to St. David's, which is like as far west as you can go in Wales without dropping off into the ocean. And it was beautiful, and at the same time it was contemporary.

nicest hotels I've ever been in without being obscenely expensive. ⁓ I think the new places I go are surprises. When I went to the Isle of Skye a few years ago, I thought, I had no idea. I had no idea it was so beautiful and so extraordinary. so, so yes, I'm still, still surprised every time.

Jonathan Thomas (38:36)
⁓

So pull back the curtain a little bit. ⁓ Nuts and bolts. What goes into planning one of your tours that people might not realize? Like how far in advance are you planning these and thinking about locations and building the right relationships with people?

Mary Valentine (38:54)
Yeah,

I would say probably about a year for any new one. It's a multi-level, very complicated process. maybe I'll start with an idea of let's go to the Isle of Skye. And then I'll think, OK, if I did that, how would we get there? How long would it take to get there? How many days could we afford to be there?

So that determines how long the tour will be. And then I backtrack and I think, okay, how many people are likely to come along? And I don't know that upfront. So I have to plan, what if I have 12 people? What if I have 10? What if I have six? You know, how many hotels do I need? I then need to start finding hotels and making sure they will let me book, but also give me an opportunity to cancel if I don't fill all the numbers.

And not all hotels want to do that. And I understand why it's a risk they take as well. So then I have to start thinking about advertising. So how do I advertise? Where do I advertise? But before I can do that, I have to figure out how much I'm going to charge people. So I have to do all the numbers. What will it cost if I have 10 people coming, if I have six people coming? And then I have to go and act on a leap of faith, I guess, about that.

⁓ Then we have to find restaurants and you wouldn't think that would be hard, but if you've got 12 people, it's much harder to find a restaurant, particularly in a village that will seat 12 people. So then the question becomes, well, do we have our base in more of a town or city so we have access to places that will be able to handle the size of our group if it is 12? But if it's six people, that doesn't matter. So it's all this juggling around of things.

Jonathan Thomas (40:18)
Yeah.

Mary Valentine (40:48)
And then people jumping on at the last minute saying, please, please, have you got a space for me? And what they may not realize is, yes, I want them want them to come. But that means going back to every single venue where I booked something we're going to do and changing it and upping it. You we need to add a person and get an extra ticket. And we still put an extra person in this time slot where we've got everybody else. Or what happens if I call a hotel and they say, no, we are sold out now?

and I need an extra room, how do I figure that out? And I mean, you've done some crazy things. I've sent the driver to a different hotel so I could put the new person in his or her old room. So you've got that issue. ⁓ Then we have to worry about allergies and food people can and cannot eat. So then that gets built into it. I have to get medical histories from everyone to know what medication they're on, what.

physical issues might be a problem if they become injured. So we've got all that going on back and forth. ⁓ And then just people calling with really good questions about how's this going to work? And how do I get from the airport to wherever and so on. So just a lot of answering questions and explaining. ⁓ Then I try to publish a newsletter, probably about eight times a year. So that has to incorporate all the new information about the tour. ⁓ then

The other thing that adds to it is I do scouting trips. I don't like to take groups anywhere I haven't been before. So, you know, I'm thinking right now about maybe in a year or so doing a tour of Ireland. So in a couple of days, I'm leaving for Ireland on a scouting trip. So usually I do one to two scouting trips before each tour, and each of those takes a week to 10 days. So it just adds up, you know, and it becomes a year long process.

And to somebody joining on, know, they may think, OK, I know I need to send a check or deposit or whatever. And I know these are the dates I'm going. And they think, OK, well, it's all taken care of. But there is a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes.

Jonathan Thomas (42:59)
It sounds like you're a master of figuring that all out, the 3D chess that is planning these stories.

Mary Valentine (43:05)
Well, I have a friend

I call and I'll say, just listening to me, I'm going to walk you through this. Is there anything wrong with this? Have I forgotten anything? And that's helpful.

Jonathan Thomas (43:14)
So you mentioned the driver being one of your secret weapons. Do you have any other secret weapons in your tour tour guide arsenal?

Mary Valentine (43:22)
⁓ Yes, I think the secret weapon is always to figure out what can I do that no other tour that goes to this town or this city or this place does. And so I'll just give you some examples. In the last five or six years, here are some of the places we've been that I don't think any other tours have been. Number one, we went to Lee Miller's home, she of the movie Lee.

the wartime photographer and met her son and spent some time talking with him, went through her house and so on. And I've taken two groups back there. Second example, ⁓ Dame Zonder-Roads who designed for Freddie Mercury and Princess Diana. We went to her studio and spent the afternoon with her showing us all of her history of collective gowns and things and her drawings and so on.

I don't think many other tour groups, if any, go there. ⁓ In Dorset, one year we went to the swannery, where thousands of swans come back to ⁓ sit on their eggs. We got there the week they were all coming back, and it was like the most incredible thing I've ever seen, with hundreds of maybe thousands of swans all coming to this little town in Dorset. ⁓

When we went to Wales last year, we went to the rehearsal by the men's Welsh choir. I didn't want us to go to the performance. I wanted us to go to the rehearsal because I think that's more revealing. So we sat for a couple hours and just listened to these men sing and then listen to the director tell them they had to be better. So that was kind of fascinating. Whenever we're in Bath, I take groups to Persephone Books, which is an amazing

run by an amazing woman who publishes the works, most of them turn of the last century, ⁓ forgotten or women writers who never got much attention. And she's published more than 120 volumes now. And just going there is amazing. When we get there, she has tea and scones she's made for us. And so we sit and talk about books, and that becomes an amazing experience. ⁓

Probably one of the best things we've done in recent years that was a big surprise was when we were in Wales and we went to meet the man who is a love spoon carver. I don't know if you know what love spoons are. didn't. I'd seen them and never known them, but they can be, you know, like the size of a spoon or they can be huge and they're carved and they're traditionally given from sweethearts to their sweethearts. So this man who had to be, I would think in his 70s.

is carving a spoon out of wood while talking to us. And then he stops and he holds up one. They said, this is the one I carved and gave to my wife the day she agreed to marry me. And this is the one I gave her to her on the night of our wedding. It was so sweet and so wonderful. I came out weeping at how great it was. Here was a man of such passion about and pride with the work that he did. And he brought his son in because his son's growing up in the business. This is out in the middle of wilderness in Wales. And we found this.

⁓ Let me think, when we went to Cornwall, we learned to pasties. We went to cooking school. So I guess what I'm saying is my advice, my trick, if you will, is do something nobody else does or a few other places do. The bagpipe lesson was the latest thing we did last week. One of the people on our tour is building, I don't know how you do this, how he was making his own bagpipe at home.

And so we went to the National Bagpipe Center and looked at bagpipe construction and he began blowing through the tube to show us how that is done. So everybody had their turn trying to see if they have the lungs for a bagpipe. So those are just examples of things that we do that give us an edge. But I think the challenge I have is not many people know us about us. You know, they don't know that we're there. So to me, the biggest

The toughest thing I have had to deal with is marketing.

Jonathan Thomas (47:35)
I can sympathize there ⁓ as a fellow British themed business owner. Marketing has consumed most of my daily thoughts.

Mary Valentine (47:46)
Well, but you provide so much for people. You're so prolific and the things you're offering are amazing. I don't know how you can write the volume of stuff that you write in the window of time that you have.

Jonathan Thomas (47:51)
Thank you.

I don't know either. I've been at it for 18 years now and I'm just used to it at this point. And I'm always working on the next thing. ⁓ Other than marketing, what's the most challenging aspect of leading tours that people don't necessarily see?

Mary Valentine (48:10)
Yeah.

Ooh, other than marketing.

I don't know, I don't find people particularly difficult. I was saying all the years I've been doing it, we've had maybe three or four difficult people, but usually, you know, they're great. So the times we've had difficult people, there's been no satisfying them. If you know what I mean, you know, I don't have the best room, why don't I have the best room? And you know, those kinds of things that you think this is what makes Americans unpopular. But ⁓

Jonathan Thomas (48:38)
Right.

Mary Valentine (48:50)
No, I'd say marketing getting the word out ⁓ recruiting, you know, I'm trying some new techniques this year. I know I'm advertising with you and your newsletter for the first time. And ⁓ I've got a little system going here that isn't going to bring in many people. We'll see. And that is I go to the local pubs in the greater Los Angeles area and ask if I can leave my brochures there in return for which I will write a review of their ⁓

pub in my newsletter. So I leave these brochures that describe the tour and what we do and so on. And then I write a review. Fortunately, so far they've been good pubs. I don't know what I'm going to do when I get to a bad one. But so I tried that.

Jonathan Thomas (49:32)
Well, as someone

who lived in LA for a year, a few years ago, I can confirm there were a lot of great British themed pubs and stores in the LA metro area.

Mary Valentine (49:45)
Well, and the other thing I've done, which may pay off, I got a call from it the other day, is ⁓ there's something here called the Mayflower Club. And the Mayflower Club is made up of a group of British expats, and they get together at Christmas time and do musicals and performances and so on. And they travel, used to travel, don't travel as much now, but they've got dance nights and so on. So I thought, well, I will go there.

and I will talk to people. So I go and hand out brochures and stuff. And I've had a couple of calls coming out of it, but it's just difficult to know. don't have a huge budget for advertising. And it's also tricky to figure out where to advertise ⁓ that would be most likely to find people who'd be interested in this. And I think a lot of people already have their own travel agents whom they trust and worked with for years.

you know, that makes it a bit more of a challenge as well. But I'll plod along, you know, we'll see.

Jonathan Thomas (50:46)
So how do you manage the balance between being a tour guide and handling all logistics? And do you ever want to be a tourist again and not have to deal with all the tour, all of that? Or is that for what your research trips are for?

Mary Valentine (50:59)
Yeah, yeah. When I go on my ⁓ scouting trips, I am usually by myself. So I can, you know, I can stop as long as I want to and take photographs or sit and look out the window and nobody's saying where are we going next or where's the bus or whatever. So I suppose that's the way that I get to deal with a, you know, a relatively stress free experience there. And at the same time, it makes me feel more confident than when I go as a leader, I know where I'm going because I've been to this place before.

scoped it out. ⁓ That's not really been a problem for me, mainly because the overwhelming majority of people who've gone on my trips have been wonderful. They've been people I would like to know, know, or they've been people I already know. ⁓ And I've made lots of friends over the years. So I think it diminishes the chances of that being a real conflict.

Jonathan Thomas (51:53)
So where would you love to take a tour group that you haven't gone to yet or haven't been able to go yet?

Mary Valentine (52:00)
⁓ If I were really brave, I think I'd take a tour group to the Isle of Skye. It's a challenge because it's a different kind of trip. Life on the Isle of Skye is really slow from the week I spent there at least. ⁓ And it takes a long time to get there. And that's a real challenge. I mean, I even found that with the trip to Scotland, having to book two days on either side, you know, getting up there and getting back.

⁓ you know, cut into the time we could spend there. ⁓ And a lot of people don't like riding on a bus and I don't blame them. ⁓ So, but if I could figure out how to do it ⁓ and do it economically, would think maybe Isle of Skye. I don't know yet about Ireland. I'm, you know, going there in a couple days. So, I'll see if I think that's something I could do. ⁓

I don't think it would be that hard because people could fly into Dublin, so I wouldn't have the whole issue of getting the amount of ink up there. ⁓

Jonathan Thomas (53:00)
Yeah. And they

get free clearance on the way back, which is amazing. Do you clear the, do you clear the border in Ireland? So you don't have to, when you get back to the U S. Uh, yeah, it's very convenient. It's, it's weird. Like you get on there, you go through the border in Ireland. And then when, like, when I get to O'Hare, the plane literally lands at the domestic terminal and you get off and that's it. You know,

Mary Valentine (53:14)
Wow.

Yeah, no, the.

Jonathan Thomas (53:29)
to go through customs or wait three hours at the border. It's nice. One of our travel hacks, and a lot of people recommend, is actually don't fly direct to London. Fly through Dublin, like on Aer Lingus. And that way, when you go home, you can cross the border, and it's much easier getting home.

Mary Valentine (53:30)
Wow.

You're right.

Well, that's helpful information. had no idea. Thank you.

Jonathan Thomas (53:50)
Yeah.

Well, and another thing, if you're trying to make the logistics of Sky work, ⁓ there are quite a few US airlines that fly direct to Edinburgh. So you might be able to cut a day of travel that way if you can just start at Edinburgh instead of. ⁓

Mary Valentine (54:05)
Right, right. Yeah, I don't ⁓

I don't have drivers whom I know in Edinburgh, so I need to figure that out and become dependent upon the one particular driver who's very, very good. ⁓ So I have to negotiate with him maybe. The next time we're going to Edinburgh, but are.

Jonathan Thomas (54:27)
So,

my final question, so you've got one more tour coming up this year. So where are you going? What are you gonna see and do? ⁓ You still have spaces, I assume, available so people could conceivably book after hearing this. So give us the sales pitch.

Mary Valentine (54:45)
Yeah.

Okay, the September 2nd through the 11th tour is basically a repeat of the tour I just did. So it's for people who couldn't come in May and who instead can come in September. So we start at Heathrow and we go north ⁓ and get ourselves into Scotland and basically do Enveral, Stirling, ⁓ Glasgow. ⁓

and then come back down via the western side, back into the Cotswolds and Liverpool. We do a stop and then back to the airport. So it gives you a combination of seeing parts of England you may not have spent any time in before because they're further north. And it gives you the big outline of the southern part of Scotland. So you see the major cities of Scotland, but then we spend time in the countryside as well. ⁓ And it's beautiful.

beautiful countryside, friendly people. ⁓ We just we had a fantastic time. So come with us because we're going to go do it again.

Jonathan Thomas (55:53)
I I could. So, well, thank you for joining us on the Anglotopia podcast, Mary. For those inspired by today's conversation, you can learn more about Mary's tours at her website, maryvalentinetours.com, which we will link to in the show notes. We'll also link to her website and social media in the show notes. And we'll link to some of the experiences she mentioned today. If you enjoyed hearing about Mary's unique approach to British travel and her insights into sharing Britain with fellow Anglophiles,

please subscribe to her newsletter and leave a comment and let her know you want to get in touch. If you enjoy the Anglotopia podcast, please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia club where you can get early access to new episodes and connect with other enthusiasts of British stuff. So join us next time as we continue exploring the people, places and experiences that make Britain so endlessly fascinating to discover. Thank you, Mary.

Mary Valentine (56:46)
Thank you for the great work you do.

Jonathan Thomas (56:49)
Thank you.