Speaker 1 (00:12)
Welcome to the Anglotopia podcast where we discuss British travel history and culture. I'm Jonathan Thomas and this is Jacqueline Thomas, my lovely, beautiful wife. And this week is special as we record because this is the 50th episode of the Anglotopia podcast. Can you believe we're now at 50 episodes? lot.

Speaker 2 (00:33)
That's a lot.

we've got special co-hosts today. If you're watching.

Speaker 1 (00:39)
Yeah, we've got special co-hosts This is

this is Cooper and this is lady. They insisted on being with us while we do this They're So they're gonna be very good dogs, right? Okay, and so It took us quite a few years to get to 50 episodes We only started releasing weekly last year and then I suspect we'll get to a hundred episodes a lot faster that it took us to get to 50

Speaker 2 (00:48)
King Charles, Cavalier, Spaniels

Speaker 1 (01:04)
but we thought this was a milestone because at 50 is a lot. It's a lot of work.

Speaker 2 (01:08)
That's a lot. mean, when you think about how much time goes into a podcast, because the finished product is 45 minutes to an hour, but it's a lot of work.

Speaker 1 (01:19)
You only see the finished product. There's a lot of behind the scenes work that goes into this. So to celebrate our 50th episode, we thought it would be fun to do a Q &A. And so I hit social media hard the last couple weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:21)
which is the way should be.

These

are always so much fun. You guys always come up with the best questions.

Speaker 1 (01:39)
begging people for their questions. The topics are very broad. British travel history, culture, or about Anglotopia in general, or our travels. And so we have about like 20 or 25 questions here. And so, and I know our last Q &A was probably one of our most watched episodes. So here we are. And so we've got some wonderful questions for you and hopefully some wonderful answers that clip well for social media.

Speaker 2 (02:01)
Nice. What tea are you drinking today?

Speaker 1 (02:04)
I'm

drinking Cornish smugglers tea because it is close to lunchtime and that's I drink in the day and you're not having tea So a couple housekeeping things So We the Friends of Anglotopia Club had an initial goal to get to 200 members So that we could remove the Google Ads from Anglotopia as of this morning. We have 196 members

Speaker 2 (02:11)
Lemon water.

Speaker 1 (02:29)
four members of the way of achieving our goal. hopefully by the time this goes out next week, we will have reached the 200 member goal. So please, if we haven't reached the goal, please join the Friends of Anglotopia Club. get early access to the podcast, exclusive newsletter every Sunday in your inbox, discounts on British stuff, and all kinds of cool stuff that you don't get anywhere else.

Speaker 2 (02:49)
And thank you to everyone who signed up. It really makes a difference for us. And thank you for supporting Anglotopia and the great work that we're putting out. Just thank you to everybody who has supported the membership club. It's kind of been overwhelming in such a lovely way.

Speaker 1 (03:10)
And

people have the nicest things to say when we when we put our stuff out through the club. They are so happy to be members. And it's it's a lovely little bit of Britishness that you that you pay for. And you also get a lot of a lot in return. And then as soon as we hit 200, the Google ads come off of Anglotopia. And that is going to be a very happy day for everybody because the ads are not great.

Speaker 2 (03:32)
Well, and it really allows us to continue to put out great content. So blog posts, blogs, newsletters, and really do, you know, so much of online today is AI generated and it's, I was just having a conversation with some colleagues earlier that it's so easy to find just kind of AI bland, no feeling, like the content that you're getting through Anglotopia.

is not AI generated. This guy is plugging away at the computer, I promise you. And so, you know, it's just really nice to support good writing, good content.

Speaker 1 (04:08)
Yeah, independent publishers are facing a lot of struggles on the open web. But our core Anglotopia fans have stuck with us and they're continuing to stick with us and we have a lot of exciting things planned. So please join them, friends of Anglotopia Club. The link will be in the show notes.

Speaker 2 (04:25)
We're not limiting it at 200. So we're at 200 and you keep going. mean, it only gets better.

Speaker 1 (04:30)
I mean

to give you a preview of coming attractions. The next goal will be to get to, I haven't set the target yet, but will be to set a target to remove the Google Ads from Londontopia then hopefully we want to create a way to share videos that don't involve having to scroll through social media and YouTube and all that. But to build that, we need...

supporters who are paying for it to do it because hosting video is expensive and complicated and we want to create a special place that is separate from the endless scrolling and doom scrolling of social media. So we'll make a nice little positive place. So those are just some of the things we're planning to cut to going forward and the more members we get the more we can do.

Speaker 2 (05:15)
All right.

Speaker 1 (05:16)
Next thing on the list is we have a new book out. The British Monarchy, a complete guide to Britain's kings and queens. If you're watching on YouTube, I'm holding it up. This has been one of our best selling books we've ever put out. So thank you to everyone who's bought one so far. Please keep buying it. You can buy it directly from us and you can also buy it in ebook. It is also available wherever you can buy, prefer to buy books, whether it's Amazon, bookshop.org.

Blackwells, your local bookshop, you can get it pretty much everywhere. So please get out a look. Link. Shop local. Book stores, local bookstores. We love them. So Link will be in the show notes for that. And then a minor housekeeping. We have a new website for the podcast, which debuted a couple of episodes ago.

Speaker 2 (05:47)
It's shop local. It's a

Speaker 1 (06:02)
This is a shiny new portfolio where you can browse all the previous episodes of the podcast, watch all the videos, see the transcripts. And it's also a great way that you can subscribe and get an email notification when an episode's out. And the big thing, which is something you don't even notice, but I'm very proud of, is we've now taken hosts over hosting of the podcast. So we were using a third party service before. Now we host the podcast ourselves on our own servers.

And so we control the entire experience. so, and you can still listen to our podcasts everywhere because that's the glory of podcasts. So making it better for everybody. And so as we go forward, that's going to be a big key part of our efforts. So.

Speaker 2 (06:35)
Just making it better. Strength to strength.

Alright, let's dig in because we've got a lot of housekeeping here and thanks for bearing with us.

Speaker 1 (06:48)
We got a lot of questions to cover and this will probably go on longer than our normal podcast. We're prepared for that because this is fun!

Speaker 2 (06:55)
We are? I wasn't prepared for that. Ha Ha ha ha.

Speaker 1 (06:58)
There will be lunch at the end. So, the first question I got was one that I laughed at because I actually think I got this question last time. Okay. Are there any handsome British men that I can date?

Speaker 2 (07:09)
I love that.

Speaker 1 (07:10)
The answer is yes, there are plenty of British men that you can date and found around the world. Your local major city has thousands of British expats. Join the BABC. You can meet you can meet Brits who are working in your local city. This is the British American Business Council. Every major city has a has a trade group of British expats. But that aside, we actually have a podcast sponsor who you can get in touch with.

Speaker 2 (07:15)
They can be found around the world too.

Yes.

Speaker 1 (07:37)
We'll put a link in the show notes and they sponsored an episode last year dating across the pond. They specialize in matching people in different countries, not just across the pond, but that was their other original focus. So we'll put a link in the show notes and good luck beating that British man because that's the easiest way to move there. a partner. Exactly. Perfect. So the next question is a travel related question. So someone said,

I'm thinking of traveling to Great Britain and I would like to know what are the spots to go to and avoid going to. So this is a very broad question and we get, it's a good one, but we also get this question a lot. It's difficult to answer if we don't know what you're particularly interested in. But the safe answer is always London because you can kind of hit all the...

Speaker 2 (08:07)
It's a good one though.

Speaker 1 (08:21)
the British highlights there and have a London and British travel experience. But.

Speaker 2 (08:26)
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you on this because I think that, I mean London is where most people experience Britain for the... I think London has changed a lot in the time that we've traveled. You know, London is a major global city and a major global hub and London feels like it. It feels like that and so...

If you really want to discover Britishness and you want to discover the United Kingdom, I, so that's where I respectfully disagree. London is lovely, but if you really want to see England, get out of London.

Speaker 1 (08:59)
Yeah, and Britain has several, many top tier cities worth visiting other than London.

Speaker 2 (09:08)
London is great.

London can be a great way to dip your toes in if you're not sure about transportation. But if you have the opportunity, take a day trip. Go to Windsor. And the trains are really good there. You can take a train to another city.

Speaker 1 (09:26)
Just some examples, Bath for Georgian Jane Austen history. Take the train to York, take the train to Newcastle or Leeds or Manchester. mean, there's a lot of great cities to choose from and a lot to see and do there and a lot to see and do outside those cities as well. You don't need a car if you stick to the cities, but if...

Speaker 2 (09:30)
Amazing, super fun city.

And you don't need a car.

Speaker 1 (09:50)
You don't want to just experience the cities. There are plenty of highlights outside of the cities, too. Like many Americans will gravitate towards the Cotswolds. Beautiful. We recommend the Cotswolds. We but these days, we kind of actually avoid telling people what not to do, even though there's plenty that we would tend to avoid on our own personally. Like we're not in a hurry to go back to Stonehenge.

Speaker 2 (10:12)
Ha, you're gonna get so much hate mail for that.

Speaker 1 (10:15)
Yeah,

mean, Stonehenge is great.

Speaker 2 (10:17)
We've done it. We've checked it off of our box.

Speaker 1 (10:20)
to do.

But having driven adjacent to it probably a dozen times over the years like okay it's

Speaker 2 (10:26)
on our way from London to Dorset.

Speaker 1 (10:28)
You know, it's like, I'm not in a hurry to go back to Stonehenge. But like I said, we tend to avoid places where people dress up in costumes. That's not really our thing. But those places aren't bad. They're not sometimes they're worth visiting.

Speaker 2 (10:41)
One in the midlands though that was kind of cool.

Speaker 1 (10:43)
the Blists Hill Victorian Village. Yeah, was cool. was incredible. I love that, actually.

Speaker 2 (10:47)
actually kind of...

All right, so we've just contradicted, which is why we don't typically say, avoid this, because there's so much nuance and contradiction and...

Speaker 1 (10:59)
Well, and over

the years, like when we started, a lot of our most popular articles were like, don't do this and tourist traps. And like, I've softened over the years because I realized through meeting people and discussing people is that like, these are people's jobs. These are people's careers. And to say, don't go there, that sucks. Like you're kind of denigrating somebody's livelihood and that's not cool.

Speaker 2 (11:23)
I mean, you can share an opinion, and we do share opinions, but just mindful about how we share them. And just because we didn't like it doesn't mean that it might not be a highlight of somebody else.

Speaker 1 (11:33)
And

our audience is broad. so while we like to travel in a certain way and experiencing this, we're not everybody else is going to experience and travel the way we do. So we don't want to pass judgment or say, this is terrible. But we'll try to give you an honest assessment of what we feel about a place. But again, we tend to visit places that are special, you know, and that's.

Speaker 2 (11:55)
Because we deem them special. Anyway.

Speaker 1 (11:58)
Yeah, so let's

move on. So this question is like I said, it's so broad and it's hard to answer. But, you know, just go to Britain. Just start there.

Speaker 2 (12:07)
And honestly, again, when we started traveling, Anglotopia didn't exist. So there wasn't a place to do research. Like, I have this like, let's say I'm really into Bridgerton and I want to do all kinds of stuff around Bridgerton. Well, now you have a site like Anglotopia where you can do all that research and play. I know you could play in an itinerary. But enough with that.

Speaker 1 (12:27)
And so, yeah.

And we are also like, if you have, we're also happy to take more questions via email. Like if you want to get more granular, like if you're going to a specific place and we actually have some questions later on that where we're going to go into that. Cause believe it or not, we actually haven't been everywhere in Britain. So there's still some places we don't know a lot about, which is unfortunate.

So the next question is someone said, don't know if I saw it on your site, but not long after buying my plane ticket from the U.S. I found out that for the first time in 20 years, the UK required me to get a special visa. It was easy, totally online and took just a few moments and I got an instant answer. I was wondering if this was a new requirement of Yanks because of our new head of state. And so I know what you're talking about. We actually did a whole episode about the new ETA requirement.

So I'll link to that in the show. Yes, it is new, but the answer is no, it has nothing to do with the change in administrations or the current political situation in any country. It actually goes back to Brexit and the way Europeans have to travel across their borders. So there has to be an electronic record. And so now all Americans have to also have electronic record because they want to basically keep track of who is coming and going where they used to not keep track of when you left.

Speaker 2 (13:18)
Yes, to answer your question, yes it is new.

Speaker 1 (13:45)
As Americans. As Americans. And so I'll put a link in the show notes to the episode where you can talk about it. It's not a visa. A lot of people think it's a visa. It's not. People who come to the US have to get something similar called an ESTA. And it's just an electronic authorization that says you are allowed to travel. has your visa status is a completely different thing. And everybody who travels to Britain now has to get one. It costs 10 pounds right now.

But in the coming months, it's going to be going up to 16 pounds and it's easy to do you do it on your phone There's an app for Android and iOS and you can do it on there on a website, but they really don't want you to It's I on the episode the podcast I actually go through the whole process and then I got approved in less in a minute And so most people don't have any issues with it. However, I did get some comments from readers who did say that

Some people have had issues getting approvals. There is apparently no appeal process. You can keep reapplying, but they're probably not gonna approve it. And so there was a reader who said that her husband had a criminal history from like a long time ago that was like basically a non-issue anymore, but because it's on his record and you have to say if you've been convicted of a crime.

Speaker 2 (14:41)
Can you just reply?

Speaker 1 (15:00)
that's like an automatic denial apparently. if you've been convicted of a crime, usually you're not welcome to travel to Britain. So it's things like that, that there's these little edge cases where people are getting denied, but they would also normally be denied for a visa.

Speaker 2 (15:16)
Would it be advisable to apply for it first and then buy a plane ticket?

Speaker 1 (15:19)
Yes, that was my advice in the video is if you even if you don't have a trip booked just apply for it and get it Because it's good for two years and then you're good to go for two years So actually we should do yours. haven't exactly we don't have any travel plans, but we should make sure we have it We should do it for the kids too. Yep So because it's only ten pounds. I mean, it's thirteen dollars and seventy five cents All right, next one's a fun one

Speaker 2 (15:44)
Alright, what's next?

Speaker 1 (15:47)
This might take us a long time to answer. What are the top five most iconic foods or meals that tourists should try?

Speaker 2 (15:54)
Pie. Meat pie. It's an art form. It took me a long time to find it and discover it.

Speaker 1 (16:01)
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:01)
I really like I one night we came in and I think this no we were I think we were staying at the Hilton or the one down the Portobello Road Do you remember which one that was is that a Marriott or Hilton? It might have been the Radisson which was a great Vanderbilt which was a I think so, right?

Speaker 1 (16:14)
the red.

And there

was a pub, there was like a pub we went to.

Speaker 2 (16:21)
across the street.

Like it was like we were so jet lagged. It was the day we arrived and it was beautiful. Like in one of the row houses there was like a pub in there was a it was in a hotel as well. It wasn't in our hotel. It was like down the street and I had this leek. What was it like leek and spring onion and a turnip pie in a white sauce. Like my mouth is starting to water thinking about it. I've never encountered anything like it.

but it completely like opened the world of meat pies for me and just, my God, yum. And you like with some mash and gravy. Now I'm hungry. Okay. Well, how about you?

Speaker 1 (17:01)
So yeah, steak and ale pie obviously like if you can get a pot and meat pie We don't really do meat pies in this country. We have pot pies. I'm not a fan of pot pies at all a good British meat pie Yeah, and if you want a good source for them, I know a guy. I'll put a link in the show

Speaker 2 (17:12)
them.

It's stick to your ribs food.

That's the most Chicago thing ever. know a guy. He was based out of Chicago.

Speaker 1 (17:24)
He's a British ex-pat who is based

out Chicago and Jolly Posh Foods and he was dismayed at the lack of British bacon and meat pies and so like he makes his own and the stuff is amazing so I'll a link in the show notes. I mean there's like typical things like fish and chips. I don't like fish at all so I don't like fish and chips. love chips. like chips. Chunky chips.

Speaker 2 (17:37)
Yes.

fish and chips. Chunky chips.

Chunky chips with malt vinegar.

Speaker 1 (17:52)
Even

if you don't do fish, do chunky chips. I mean, that's a...

Speaker 2 (17:55)
But if you get good fish and chips where the batter is light and crunchy, okay, we should not have done this before lunch. Now I'm starving.

Speaker 1 (18:04)
One of the more recent discoveries on our trip in 2018, Cornish pasties.

Speaker 2 (18:09)
Yeah, you really liked them and I would just...

Speaker 1 (18:12)
Good.

Speaker 2 (18:12)
I mean, don't get me wrong, please don't send me hate mail. It was good, but I'll take a pie over a pasty any day.

Speaker 1 (18:18)
Let's see, you must, this is a cultural experience that you must do at least once. Going to get a takeaway.

Speaker 2 (18:24)
Yes! my gosh, yes!

Speaker 1 (18:26)
So like, what that is is like most towns and villages will have like a hole in the wall shop.

Speaker 2 (18:33)
that looks sometimes a little sketch but maybe might be pr-

Speaker 1 (18:37)
Yeah,

this is a place you might not normally go into, but they'll have like fish and chips and chicken and chips and like burgers and chips. But like it's still a menu that like serves everything to everybody, but the food is usually like really greasy, but also really good. we're like, and it's where it's the place that locals will go and they want a quick meal, not McDonald's. They'll go to the takeaway.

Speaker 2 (18:44)
They like to fry things.

You know what I haven't had yet? Speaking cultural experience, I am thinking like takeaway. I haven't had a kebab. Like that is like the quintessential if you've been out drinking and like you're on your way home, you might stop and get a kebab somewhere. That's on a to-do list.

Speaker 1 (19:15)
Yeah, so get a takeaway. are plenty, there's, can't throw a stone in London without hitting a takeaway. There's many famous takeaways. Yeah, you gotta do a takeaway. It's a cultural, especially if you've been out and having a good time all night.

Speaker 2 (19:32)
Yep, you want something kind of greasy and crunchy.

Speaker 1 (19:35)
The corollary to

that is a full English breakfast.

Speaker 2 (19:38)
Yep, that will set you right.

Speaker 1 (19:40)
I do love a good English breakfast, although I scramble my eggs, which is... I don't do the beans and...

Speaker 2 (19:46)
Black pudding, blood sausage.

Speaker 1 (19:48)
The regular sausage, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:50)
A banger, right? Or is that a banger on full English?

Speaker 1 (19:55)
Well, that's the slang term for all English sausage. They used to have a lot of high water content, and when you'd fry them, they would pop. That's why they call them bangers. then so bangers and mash is obviously a favorite of yours. I know that. I don't like mash, so I was going to say.

Speaker 2 (19:58)
Well, delicious banger.

okay, that makes sense. Hey, I learned something on our own podcast.

yeah.

Sunday roast.

Did I steal your thunder?

Speaker 1 (20:21)
It's another cultural experience you must have, a Sunday roast in a pub in the country.

Speaker 2 (20:25)
a pub. Yeah,

if you can do it in the countryside, it's not not not we've had some great Sunday lunches in London. absolutely. But you typically go do it on a Sunday. You want to book in first somewhere where you can go for a walk because it's a heavy meal.

Speaker 1 (20:33)
They let you steal.

Like when we were there in October, I did like research for weeks on the perfect place to have sundae.

Speaker 2 (20:48)
And nailed it. Nailed it. I know, right? See, we did this before lunchtime. This was strategic error.

Speaker 1 (20:54)
And then finally, I mean, high T with T and scones. can't really...

Speaker 2 (20:59)
clotted cream. We can get clotted cream here in the US, but I've never had clotted cream here, like there. Just yum.

Speaker 1 (21:08)
So those are just a few.

you okay over there? So those are just a few that we recommend trying. lot of people, there's still a stereotype that British food isn't good and it's so not true that like, it's so beyond. You have to get the right foods.

Speaker 2 (21:11)
I'm sorry, I'm hungry now.

Okay, so when we started traveling to Great Britain in the early 2000s, I had a really hard time eating in Britain. Like, it just took me a long time to learn how to eat in Britain, which that sounds really stupid, but I will say the culinary landscape in the past 20 years in Britain, now I go and I come home and I can't.

Speaker 1 (21:38)
sort of that.

Speaker 2 (21:51)
like button my pants because I've eaten all this lovely rich food so I mean you could really do well in in Britain.

Speaker 1 (21:59)
All right, moving on. So this is a this is a fun question, but also we have to we have to thread the needle on our answers here. What's a British thing you wish Americans would adopt more widely? So that's the list. That's that's a again, it's a hard to answer because we don't like again in the early days of the blog, we were we were right. All these lists of things that we that America should adopt. And we don't do that anymore because it's it's really people are a lot of people put off by negativity.

Speaker 2 (22:11)
Let me get my.

Speaker 1 (22:26)
We don't want say that America the way America does something is inferior But there are things that British do that I really appreciate and wish we would do more of here

Speaker 2 (22:35)
Let me say though, because you keep saying this, that's not to say that we, I mean clearly the question's been asked, we're gonna give an answer. So we're always gonna be honest about our answers, but we can be honest about our answers and say something we like or we don't, or we dislike. We can just be nice about how we do it. like same with like going back to the question about tourists, know, things to see or not see as a tourist. We can say things that we didn't.

we didn't enjoy but that doesn't mean that we're attraction so same thing with this like yeah

Speaker 1 (23:06)
My first one is something that bugs me about three or four times a day. So every time I turn my tea kettle on and have to wait more than five minutes for it to heat up, I wish American kettles were as quick as British ones. And I know the reason why voltage is different. And so their kettles are much more efficient because they've got 240 volt versus our 120, but

I just, wish our kettles were better. wish, I'm actually tempted to, to wire, to wire a 220 and buy like a, some kind of high powered kettle just so it eats up faster.

Speaker 2 (23:46)
You realize, I hope you realize, have some self-awareness. like, I have to wait five minutes for my kettle.

Speaker 1 (23:51)
Well now I have to wait even longer because we have the new reverse osmosis for our water and that takes forever to fill the kettle and then I have to wait forever for the kettle to heat up. It took 10 minutes to make this cup of tea before we recorded this podcast. I don't know. We used to have a hot water cooler where the water would come out hot. Now you couldn't make a cup of tea with it but if you filled the kettle with it and then it would boil within a minute which was great. But yeah I hate our kettles.

Speaker 2 (24:03)
You are so soft.

supercharging it.

Speaker 1 (24:18)
What's a weakness? What's something you think we should do?

Speaker 2 (24:20)
I, one of the things that I really love about Great Britain, and I've seen this across Great Britain, is how a grand day out is structured. So like a trip to the museum or a stately home or that kind of thing. So there's two parts to this. The first is you're expected to stop during your outing and have a cup of tea.

And I don't mean like stop to get the cup of tea and take it in a to-go cup. No. Like, you're gonna get glass or plastic. Like, reusable, eco-friendly. And you're expected to sit down and maybe you'll want a sandwich. And it's like literally you stop. And it's culturally expected. Like, where in the US you'll go out for a day.

Speaker 1 (25:03)
Go, go, go, go, go.

Speaker 2 (25:04)
And maybe you'll eat on the run or that kind of thing, or maybe you'll But you're not really stopping and enjoying a meal and or like a meal and then maybe a snack. Like maybe you're going to have lunch and then you're going to have tea a couple of hours later. Like it's I love that. do, too. And the second part of that is that having traveled with small children and then having traveled without.

our kids is that British culture is very inclusive of children and families. Like even in pubs, like, you know, we've been out like in the pub garden and kids are running around, but there are activities for them or you'll go to, again, a museum or a stately home. There's something there for them to do. Like most attractions take into account, you're going to have children with you and they're really child friendly. And

We don't do that a whole lot here in the U.S.

Speaker 1 (25:59)
There was a dedicated children's museum where they prefer you go.

Speaker 2 (26:02)
Exactly. I you

can so you can bring your kids to just about any attraction, but I feel like it's not most of the attractions in the US Such as museums or cultural things are really not targeted for children. There really aren't like super inclusive activities for families that kind of thing where And it's just a cultural like difference like it's expected that kids are gonna be out and like

It's just really lovely and inclusive and...

Speaker 1 (26:31)
Well, it's nice, you know, like when you go to a National Trust property for the day out and you see lots of families out enjoying it. it's nice to see that because like I would have loved to have like experienced a stately home or a castle when I was a kid. But like it's in their backyard for a lot of these people. And so like to be able to experience that must be so and to be to feel like you're welcome.

Speaker 2 (26:55)
And, you know, like it's a grand day out for the family. cannot tell you how many kids I've seen out at National Trust Properties where the whole family has come and, you know, there's muddy wellies in the back of the stroller, like because the kids have been playing in the puddles. mean, obviously, maybe they've done the grounds in the house or done the house first. And then the kids like went and played outside in the mud. But like, it's just it's lovely. It's really lovely.

Speaker 1 (27:21)
Well, and like they put a lot of care into the experience that the kids are gonna have. I have a great example for that. In 2018, I visited Bateman's in Kent, which is Rudyard Kipling's house. And Rudyard Kipling is kind of a passe literary figure, at least in America. And...

I can imagine that for children that would be very boring to go see Rudyard Kipling's house, because it's as it was in the 1930s, 20s and 30s, and it's basically left as it was when he was alive. But to make it inclusive for the kids, to keep the kids entertained while the grownups are walking around enjoying getting their experience, they put these little mice, these little sewn mice, felt mice, all over the house. And the challenge was that the kids had to find each mouse in each room.

And so that gave the kids something to do while the parents were exploring the house. thought that's like such a smart thing to do.

Speaker 2 (28:12)
I bet

wherever the cafe was that number one, they probably had a children's menu. And number two, there was a spot for kids to either draw or, you know, do something like it's really, it's just, it's so nice. And I think that's what makes Great Britain a great family vacation spot. just the British people in general are so unbelievably kind.

Speaker 1 (28:17)
Chicken nuggets and fries.

Speaker 2 (28:36)
when you're pushing a stroller or you have unruly toddlers or... People are just like, somebody's having a moment.

Speaker 1 (28:40)
had help.

And everyone's usually happy to see a baby or a young child. No one's like, kids.

Speaker 2 (28:50)
Yeah. Yeah,

exactly. But, anyway.

Speaker 1 (28:53)
So another thing I wish we would adopt, I wish our news was structured more like British news. So our news media is focused on personalities and talking heads, whereas British news is focused on delivering the actual news story. And it's very global in its outlook. And most news readers on British news are simply that, they're news readers. They're not famous, they're not celebrities in their own right because they're on TV reading the news.

Speaker 2 (29:08)
It's very global.

Speaker 1 (29:19)
And I think we need more of that because our media is very divisive. Right now? Right now. One of the has been for 20 years. Cable news. So like, I want to get the news... back. So like, if I want to watch the news and get some idea of what's going on in the world, I'll turn on the BBC World News Channel.

Speaker 2 (29:25)
That's your opinion.

back.

Well, to find out what's going on outside of the US.

Speaker 1 (29:40)
Yeah,

because our news is very politics heavy and ignores the rest of the world. So what's another thing you wish we would adopt?

Speaker 2 (29:44)
Very inward.

I love that you can get a taxi cab just about anywhere. You can be in the most remote corner of nowhere. It's just you and cows and you can dial a cab. I mean, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (30:00)
My WhatsApp, which a lot of Americans don't even have a WhatsApp, my WhatsApp is filled with all the local taxi drivers I've used over the years.

Speaker 2 (30:07)
Yep, I mean it's phenomenal. Like, we went on this long walk and I don't want to walk anymore. I mean you're still gonna have to find a pickup point but they'll take you back.

Speaker 1 (30:16)
Yeah, I remember one time I, when I went to Oxford for a course, the first time I walked from Tolkien's grave to the Trout Inn, because it's in Morse, but it's like a mile and a half walk and it was a hot summer day. And so by the time I got there, I was exhausted and I had a nice pub lunch and I was ready for a nap. But there was a taxi.

in the parking lot, if we would just drop somebody else off. I'm like, can I see back Oxford and drove me back? It was nice. Nice. But on that, I would say attitudes towards open access to the countryside. like like I love that there are public footpaths and ways to explore around Britain that are open to everybody. We just don't have that around here. And trespassing is dangerous around here.

Speaker 2 (30:54)
Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah, wouldn't recommend it.

Speaker 1 (31:08)
I live in a very rural area, I would never walk on, even on an open farmland, I would never walk on somebody's property because you could get shot.

Speaker 2 (31:16)
Wow, and it's just, it's not very neighborly.

Speaker 1 (31:18)
No,

it's not. I mean, you can get permission, but the only open areas we have around here are the National Park or the State Park. And even those you have to pay to get in now. And so that's just I think that's a shame that we don't have a lot of open open areas to go for walks.

Speaker 2 (31:32)
at least where we are in the country.

Speaker 1 (31:34)
Anything you'd like to add?

Speaker 2 (31:37)
I like that the British dress up for things. Like, I like that there is still this... I don't know. there's still this... You know, they dress for a fancy dress party and they'll... Yeah, like I feel like po- and maybe that's changed post-pandemic, but I know that it's definitely changed post-pandemic in the US and I won't go much further into that, but...

Speaker 1 (31:47)
a little dress for a nice dinner.

Speaker 2 (31:59)
I I don't know, I like that the British have a proper way of doing things and they stick to it. And it might seem a little old fashioned, but I think it's lovely and it just keeps things on an even, you know, an even footing. I like it.

Speaker 1 (32:13)
Now this next question is a lot of fun. What was the best thing that you did on our last trip? So we were last there in October for a conference. We stayed on for a few days to explore the Katzwalds. What was the best thing you...

Speaker 2 (32:15)
Okay.

I think we're going to say the same thing. Oh, yeah. I think it's pub lunch. That like crisp fall afternoon, really lovely, delicious, hearty pub lunch, National Trust property. Like the whole day, that whole day was phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (32:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, and especially after the it was a very stressful morning and a very aggravating drive to get out of London and then finally get into the countryside and relax in a country pub for lunch, which I booked ahead months in advance. And then to go for a walk at Basildon

Speaker 2 (33:00)
It was phenomenal, a phenomenal day. And then we ended our day at Thornberry Castle. We literally had a country weekend. What is that, a country mini break?

Speaker 1 (33:09)
would you say was your second most favorite thing that we did?

Speaker 2 (33:13)
favorite

thing that we did. right, give me a second. You're going to have to go first because it's kind of a blur.

Speaker 1 (33:18)
It is a blur.

Speaker 2 (33:20)
Conference related or not?

Speaker 1 (33:22)
What was something in London that you really enjoyed?

Speaker 2 (33:24)
Ummm...

Shoe shopping at Selfridges. Okay. Okay. So, I am a shoe enthusiast. and one of my most favorite designers closed all their US stores and I won't buy a pair of shoes, especially heel without trying them on. And I know that Selfridges carries the brand and so, and usually carries a lot of the brand. And so.

I just went and took an afternoon and went through Selfridges and to my earlier point did my shoe shopping which was bliss. It was so nice. Had my wander around and then had lunch at the cafe. It was a little pricey but you're at Selfridges in London. mean come on. But it was expected that I would probably want to sit down as a shopper.

and really smart because I didn't leave the store. So I went and had my lunch. Service was phenomenal. Food was divine. And then guess what? I'm full, I'm happy, and I'm still in the store. So smart.

Speaker 1 (34:22)
I'd say my favorite thing when we were in London, and granted I didn't have that much time in London because I was at the conference, I got to ride the tube a couple times. That was nice. Because I actually hadn't ridden the tube in almost 10 years. As much as I've written about the tube, I just hadn't had a chance to ride it in long time.

Speaker 2 (34:40)
I'm gonna The Chelsea pensioners hospital

Speaker 1 (34:44)
Yeah, the Royal Chelsea Fentoners Hospital. That was fun. We rode the tube there and we bought poppies and yeah, we went to the new museum.

Speaker 2 (34:46)
That was exceptionally cool.

And we got the most beautiful weather when we were there. So like the leaves were falling, it was crisp but not cold. I'd like to redo those days. Can we redo those days?

Speaker 1 (35:02)
Okay, now we're doing it. She said it.

Speaker 2 (35:05)
No.

Speaker 1 (35:06)
All right, next question. This is a good question. Where are the statues to the late great Queen Elizabeth II? It's a good question. They are in the works. Many cities and towns have already unveiled monuments to the late queen, but the big official one will be in St. James's Park, which is just a short

Speaker 2 (35:07)
The dog snores.

Speaker 1 (35:24)
Buckingham Palace and they're gonna be unveiling it in 2026 so come soon yeah so there'll be a big that'll be the big monument to Queen Elizabeth kind of like how Victoria's right in front of Buckingham Palace Lizzie will be down some

Speaker 2 (35:37)
The spot

was taken. Down the road. He's taken,

Speaker 1 (35:40)
So

they are coming. So I think because it's been, you know, almost what, three or four years now since she died that people are kind of wondering, like, seems like it's, all moving on very quickly. But this is, it's about the right amount of time to get these things built. Cause it's a monument's gonna take artistry and there's gonna be funding. There's gonna be a committee involved and then has to be sculpted. So it's happening. So patience is required.

um well the next one's kind of fun i'd be interested to hear your answer uh i'd like to ask what do americans think of the british stereotypically

Speaker 2 (36:08)
Okay.

Speaker 1 (36:15)
You ever seen the episode of the Simpsons where they go to London? That.

Speaker 2 (36:18)
Yeah, I think that it's really funny that I see it reflected in media a lot that people assume because someone has a British accent they're either very rich or very proper or exceptionally smart.

Speaker 1 (36:34)
Yeah, we've heard British expats say that their accent is a hugely valuable business asset. Here in the US. automatically have this like deference towards it, which is weird because we don't want deference to anything in America.

Speaker 2 (36:35)
Like it boosts the IQ and I

absolutely.

I wonder though if it's the reverse though. Like if there are American accents that the British pick up or if we're all lumped together or if the British ear picks up. I mean I guess there would be some accents that like would be easier like a New York accent or a Southern accent. You're definitely going to notice that. But like Midwestern is a little more nuanced. North Midwest Chicago.

Speaker 1 (37:12)
American here can barely tell the difference between the British accents, but British people can tell the difference between someone who lives five miles away.

Speaker 2 (37:19)
We can tell the difference,

but that's just years of travel and tons of British media.

Speaker 1 (37:23)
tell you my funniest experience. I was on a heritage steam day out with an Irishman and the train conductor was Scottish, very thick Scottish accent. the Irishman could not understand anything that the Scottishman was saying, but I could understand it clearly because I've watched so much

Scottish TV over the years, like I haven't a year for accents. And so I had to translate what the Scotsman was saying to the Irishman. Yeah, it was pretty funny. I go, it's okay, it's okay. I speak British.

Speaker 2 (37:51)
That's hilarious.

Speaker 1 (37:55)
So, yeah, well, that was the joke. I stereotypically, I think we think of the British as friends. You know, we're a country that we speak the same language, we share a lot of cultural and historical heritage, but we mostly experience Britain through movies and TV shows. Correct. And they usually paint it an overly positive image sometimes.

Speaker 2 (37:56)
What do you mean Scottish?

You're going to get hate mail for that.

Speaker 1 (38:18)
but it's an image we tend to like and search for when we visit Britain. We've been allies longer than we've been enemies, and we care way more about the American Revolution than the British do.

Speaker 2 (38:29)
So our war of independence.

Speaker 1 (38:30)
they call

it? Yeah, they actually don't even learn much about it. They don't even learn really learn much about it in school, because it's kind of a side note in British Imperial

Speaker 2 (38:40)
a really fun conversation when you have it because their version of events, our version of events are really different as you would expect it to be, but that can be a fun conversation.

Speaker 1 (38:50)
It's

funny. But I would say the events of the 20th century are more impactful on our perceptions of each other than anything else.

Yeah, we just kind of think of ourselves as a common culture separated by an ocean. Cousins. We're cousins, you know. The cousins you like. Yeah. Not the cousins you don't like.

Speaker 2 (39:05)
And moving on from that.

Speaker 1 (39:06)
Let's see. this is this could be a really fun one. We'll have to be very careful with this one, What was your biggest travel flop or misadventure on your travel? That could be a whole podcast. Well, we'll mark that down as a future podcast idea. But let's see. You go first, because I'm going to have to think about this one.

Speaker 2 (39:14)
my god. my god, that would be a lot of fun actually.

my God. So for the rest of my life, I will just the thought of potted shrimp makes me green. So we this is a really funny story. We went down to Swanage. You had a contact who was amazing and lovely. And we had William with us. Well, if she is still, I'm so sorry.

We had Will with us. And so he was little. He was still I think he was a toddler. And she took us around and showed us swanage and she drove and which we were grateful for because the roads are real topsy turvy and curvy. And I don't do real well in the backseat of a car. So we it was real foggy that day, too, which if and I'm not really prone to car sickness, but

I guess there's something to be said like when you can't see the horizon it can also lead to car sickness. Anyway, we stopped at this adorable seaside cafe, or it wasn't seaside, but adorable little village cafe. So cute, really twee. And she was like, they had potted shrimp on the menu. And I love seafood and I eat as much seafood as I can in Britain because it's lovely and fresh.

were landlocked here in the Midwest. she was like, it's really good. You should try it. Well, first of all, having never had potted meat before or been experienced potted meat, it comes cold. And it was kind of like in a cross between a mousse and a jelly. It was definitely a different experience. And that's one of the things that is a cultural difference is when you go out to eat, you're kind of expected to finish your plate.

And here in the US, don't, it's, we like, maybe it's a generational thing. I don't know. We don't really do that. And so like, here I am like trying to finish my plate and I didn't really care for it. So. Yeah. So we get in the car and we're, going to do more of the day and about 20 minutes into the car, right back. Like I was ill, like I was really.

Speaker 1 (41:11)
She was buying. That adds complications.

Speaker 2 (41:26)
just not well. Like, well, I don't know if it was food poisoning or car sickness or maybe I picked up a bug. I don't know what it was, but folks, it was ugly. And so she said, well, why don't we go back to my house for a moment and we'll sit and have a cup of tea and you know, and I felt horrible because literally I could not get out of this lady's bathroom. I mean, I was so incredibly ill and, I had asked, she was like,

We'll go back to the house for a second. And I said, you know, can we just stay and have a cup of tea? Like, first of all, I invited myself into her home and then asked for tea. And I because I just needed to buy time like I needed. I knew that if like John could sit and have a cup of tea. So I'm like horribly sick in this lady's bathroom, who I don't know. I've just met her for the first time earlier in the day. I can hear our toddler running around destroying her house.

Like worst guess ever. John is trying to keep the conversation going and be just amazing. And I come out of the restroom and like, it was a lull. I'll just say that it was a lull. And I'm like, we have to leave right now because we had what? Like 45 minutes to an hour back to the cottage that we were. I'm like, we have to go right now. This poor woman had literally just finished setting out tea. She was like, you don't want to stay for tea? So sweet and kind. I was like,

Thank you so much. I'm so sorry. We have to leave right now and practically ran out of this lady's house I called her the next day to apologize profusely just said I'm so sorry like but that was I Share it not because of the food poisoning or whatever was going on, but just culturally like the cultural differences and just trying to

find my way through the- I mean, either way, it was incredibly rude, but it was just- I was so unbelievably ill. It was just- and now I will never probably ever eat potted meat, shrimp, fish of any kind ever again.

Speaker 1 (43:19)
It's a wild ride. It a wild ride back to Shaffer. I have probably two stories. I got like two stories, both related to our son. I know, I don't think it's the same story, but. So the first one would be you had, we.

Speaker 2 (43:24)
I was gonna say I have a runner up as well. Alright, you go next.

I bet we have the same story.

I bet it is.

This must have been the same trip.

Speaker 1 (43:42)
No,

this is different trip. This is a long time ago. Back in 2010 or 2011, I was up for a job in...

Speaker 2 (43:51)
you're going to tell this?

Speaker 1 (43:52)
I'm only telling you part of the story. I was up for a job in London. was like the culmination of everything I had worked for. And so we had to go for the interview, an in-person interview. like literally days before this came up, she found out she was pregnant.

Speaker 2 (43:55)
my god.

for spilling the tea.

We had a lot of trouble starting to

Speaker 1 (44:15)
It was

a momentous occasion and we were like, oh my like this huge a lot of positivity at one time. It was was great. It was a heady time. And but as the pregnancy progressed, she got we didn't know this at the time, but you got she had hyperemesis. Yeah. And got crazy sick.

Speaker 2 (44:35)
It's it's morning sickness where it's extreme. Like I had to have a lot of medical intervention to stay pregnant because the morning sickness was so bad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:46)
so

bad. it's what Kate Middleton suffered from.

Speaker 2 (44:50)
One of the Bronte sisters died from it too, right? I don't know. I believe so.

Speaker 1 (44:54)
And so we got to Britain, so like at the last minute, I literally pulled all the strings and all the stops so that we could go to England, so I could go to this job interview.

Speaker 2 (45:05)
And you worked in the office a couple days to try it out.

Speaker 1 (45:08)
Really cool. Yeah,

the CEO was like, well, I feel bad bringing you all the way over the ocean just for an interview. So like, why don't we like have you consult for the week? Yeah. And then that'll be like part of the interview process. I'm like, OK, so I'm going to get paid and I'm going to do an interview and I'm going to go to London. It sounds great. And so so we literally jetted over like the next week for this and we had free plane tickets. And that's another story. But that was it was like everything was like all the stars were aligning.

And we got there and you got so crazy sick from flying. Flying pregnant. Yeah. And you were never flown pregnant. So you had no idea. That's that it was scary. That's why this is a misadventure. And so.

Speaker 2 (45:39)
pregnant and I'd never

That was scary.

I a trend here. normally, I have a good constitution normally.

Speaker 1 (45:55)
So

we get there and we we had access to the to the arrivals lounge, which is rare And you were sick there and I'm like I'm the worried husband. I'm freaking out I'm like we are in a foreign country that I've we traveled to several times But like I don't know like do I have to take her to the hospital like she is so sick like I don't what And so we we get out of the airport we get you to the flat

Speaker 2 (46:01)
Yeah, but my god.

was so bad.

Like I just need fresh air.

Speaker 1 (46:24)
We

rented a flat from a friend who was out of town and we stayed in her flat and like you just collapsed into bed. Yeah. And I'm like, OK, she's pregnant. She's going to need to eat. And I'm like, OK, so I need to go find her food. And so like I went I went down to like the corner shop and like grabbed like a bag of rice and like really bland food. And then I got back to the flat and I'm like, I'm like

Speaker 2 (46:32)
It was so bad.

really bland food.

Speaker 1 (46:51)
I don't even know how to make rice. I don't know how to boil rice. I don't know how to take care of this woman. What am I gonna do?

Speaker 2 (46:57)
Aww, that's so sweet! You've never told me this story.

Speaker 1 (47:00)
Oh, you were asleep during it. Yeah.

And so like I'm going around the kitchen trying to make rice just so she could eat something and I'm so worried. I'm like, I don't I'm not a proper grown-up. I don't know how to do this. And we're gonna have a baby.

Speaker 2 (47:14)
You got much better at it. And I can say you're an expert rice cooker today.

Speaker 1 (47:17)
So she woke up and then thankfully we talked to our, we call them now our surrogate British family. We talked to our really good friends and they like basically brought us off the cliff and you got some tips on how to manage what you were going through.

Speaker 2 (47:34)
Well, and when you go into a pharmacy in Great Britain, like the pharmacist can actually, I learned what C-bands were and I was like.

Speaker 1 (47:43)
Sounds a little woo woo, but it worked.

Speaker 2 (47:45)
Holy cow. Yeah, which is insane. We also flew home first class. didn't buy the and nor did the company.

Speaker 1 (47:46)
Yeah, when we flew home you were fine.

and first.

people ever

fly in first class when someone else is paying for it and that was the case of someone else paying for it. Yeah, so that would be one misadventure because we weren't even there as tourists. We were just there. We were like, we're going to live here, so let's go through this. And then it really gave us pause about moving abroad.

Speaker 2 (48:01)
It was very nice.

Well, that exact stage, because we didn't know how to access the NHS.

Speaker 1 (48:16)
Because we didn't know how anything worked like I really know how

anything works in the US at the time, let alone in another country We were what? 2024 25. Yeah, so was 2010 28 27. Yeah late 20s We're still starting out life. We still didn't know anything.

Speaker 2 (48:35)
Speak for yourself.

Speaker 1 (48:37)
My

second one involves after the arrival of said child. Everything was fine, he was born. And so we...

Speaker 2 (48:46)
But hold on really quickly, you did get the job.

Speaker 1 (48:49)
I wasn't going tell that part of story.

Speaker 2 (48:51)
Well, because people are probably like, then why aren't you there? He did get the job, but because the pregnancy with him was so complicated and risky, there was just no way.

Speaker 1 (49:02)
We

could have...

Speaker 2 (49:06)
like to

stay pregnant and so there was just there was no way that we could have done a transatlantic move during that pregnancy there was just even still after the fact like no way that was heartbreaking yeah okay but I guess the less said there the better

Speaker 1 (49:13)
So.

was just a job, but we turned it down during the visa process.

Yeah, we don't. Let's not reopen old wounds on a podcast. My second misadventure involves said child.

Speaker 2 (49:33)
I bet it's the same story.

Speaker 1 (49:35)
I don't think it is, but you can tell your story when I'm done, that's not a fun one, but that's definitely a misadventure. we arranged a press trip to the Oxfordshire Cotswolds. I think it's... Just let me get it out. And so we had never traveled with a baby before.

Speaker 2 (49:49)
Seems free.

I'm not gonna say anything

No, he was older than that. think he was because he he actually learned to walk on that trip Like he took some of his first steps

Speaker 1 (50:08)
Because we didn't have Mabel yet. Oops, I'm not supposed say their name. We didn't have Mabel yet on this trip.

Speaker 2 (50:12)
I already said his name.

Yeah, William learned how to walk on that trip.

Speaker 1 (50:18)
Okay, he was born in March, so he was probably just over a year old.

Speaker 2 (50:22)
Yeah,

my god. I to still had to carry him everywhere. He was a big kid Yeah, so obviously stayed pregnant grew a giant baby

Speaker 1 (50:26)
He was 10 pounds when he was born.

And so, so we never traveled anywhere with him other than a car trip.

Speaker 2 (50:37)
Hence why I wrote a guidebook after the fact, but I'll let you continue.

Speaker 1 (50:40)
And so he bless his heart. He was a difficult baby. He was a very difficult baby. Colic. But. Would spend a lot of time screaming and he still does. But as a teenager about different things now. And so we, you know, the trip, the like the beginning of the trip went great.

Speaker 2 (50:47)
Just a fussy little guy.

You

Speaker 1 (51:01)
because he did an overnight flight as all the guidebooks say to do with the kid. He fell asleep on the plane. Well, that was the last time he slept for like a week. then he's- He was so upside down. so we got there and we went to Oxford, because that's where the beginning of trip was. We had a rental car and everything. And that first night in the hotel in Oxford, he would not go to sleep.

Speaker 2 (51:10)
Poor little clock.

And now we've been up for more than 20, like I'm going on like 36 hours.

Speaker 1 (51:31)
It's

all we wanted to do was to sleep and he would not sleep. Not only would he not sleep, he wouldn't stop crying.

Speaker 2 (51:36)
Yeah, he was just like... Again, his little clock was so upside down.

Speaker 1 (51:42)
It's not his fault. It's our fault for doing this to him. I mean, really, I mean, yeah, it's our fault. And so, but like he would not stop and and most parents will understand this feeling like you're so lost in it. You don't know what you're going to do. Like, And so we we thought, OK, well, when he's at home and he's like this because he has a track record, we put him in the car and drive him around. Yeah.

So it's like two in the morning. Yep and so we threw his butt in the car seat in the car in the rental car and Drove the Oxford ring road several times until he fell miles until he fell asleep and we went to the we went to a Tesco Yeah to a pharmacy and we're like, please help us Do you have anything that will make him go to sleep and this is when we discovered? was it? They don't sell it anymore

Speaker 2 (52:15)
My God.

No, it wasn't at the Tesco. I bought paracetamol, which is Tylenol, because I thought, well, maybe he's teething or maybe he's in pain, like, because he wasn't outwardly ill. So I bought that. That didn't help. And then the next day, I don't want to ruin the end of your story, but the next, we were still exceptionally sleep deprived as grownups to the point where I'm like, John, we've.

We've literally we've got to sleep. You cannot be driving around like this. We're a danger to others. We're a danger to him because we just have not slept. And so it was like in this really small village, went into the pharmacy, really old school. Like the pharmacist was like 100 years old. And I don't mean that as in a derogatory way, like old school pharmacist. And he pulled out a bottle. don't even remember. They made it. He told me they made it for children.

Speaker 1 (53:16)
I don't remember what was called either.

And it helps him sleep and we're like, okay gave it to him and then sure enough it like it righted his clock and put him back

Speaker 2 (53:23)
We'll take the bottle.

We gave

him a dose that night. He slept and...

Speaker 1 (53:31)
Yeah, and then years later, or like the next trip, we're like, went to the pharmacy to ask for this kids because we had a baby again. And then the pharmacist is like, man, we don't sell that anymore. That's we don't do that to our kids. We're like, we're like, what was this something that we shouldn't have done? Anyway, so yeah. So I have fond memories of just circling the Oxford driving by the Mini factory multiple times the night. And finally, he fell asleep.

Speaker 2 (53:36)
to with jet lag.

I don't

Speaker 1 (54:00)
We got him back to the room and then he woke up.

Speaker 2 (54:02)
Yeah, mean, fell asleep, carried him asleep the whole way. And we were like in a topsy turvy like English hotel. And so it was like, felt like a mile from the car park to the, to the room. I just remember staying up with him watching a documentary on Pathé newsreels, which was really interesting.

Speaker 1 (54:20)
So yeah, those would be the two misadventures off top of my head.

Speaker 2 (54:24)
I have three words for you. Sally, Lunn's Buns.

Speaker 1 (54:28)
It's not the one I was thinking. The one where he woke up and threw up all over the pub.

Speaker 2 (54:30)
What were you thinking?

my god Yes, so notice you see a lot of like repeat of illness here But no contrary to my previous statement about Britain being super inclusive of children and this is nothing against Sally Lunn's buns and bath like My kid was completely in the wrong same trip

Speaker 1 (54:36)
Did I just trigger something?

Speaker 2 (54:55)
but we were quite a few days into the trip. His clock had righted But at the end of the day, this is a toddler in a stroller. It was hot. It was. It was like July or something. was. Was it? But it was hot. And like we were doing, I think it was even a press thing we were doing for Sally Lunn's buns, which is.

Speaker 1 (55:03)
hot.

that it was made.

given an itinerary by Visit Baths of all these things to do and we were ticking them off.

Speaker 2 (55:20)
And which was lovely.

And so we went to go sit down in the dining room, like early evening dinner. And our toddler just went nuts. mean, like was over it completely done. And it's the only time I've ever been asked to leave a restaurant. He literally pulled the tablecloth off the table. I mean.

And he was so fast. mean, because here I'm like trying to placate him like, okay, you know, young new mom. my God, it was so bad. And I don't, I think you had left to go get something or you were going to meet us there and you came up.

Speaker 1 (55:56)
We took turns.

Speaker 2 (55:57)
Yeah,

because we took him out a couple times even. And I remember coming out and we had like a packable stroller and I had the, that like could sling over my shoulder. And I came out with him. You probably heard us walking out as he was flailing in my arms, like full meltdown with the stroller slung over me. And you were like, what? And I'm like, we've been asked to leave. It was horrible, which in all fairness, they were completely in the right.

My kid was completely insane and destroying the dining experience of everybody else, but I have never been so embarrassed in my whole life.

Speaker 1 (56:35)
And we tell him that story. He's like, I believe it. Yeah. He's like, yeah, that sounds like me. Like, gee, thanks. I'm so glad you're that self-aware.

Speaker 2 (56:43)
What do you, yeah, he's still kind of that way today. That win, no, let me finish my statement.

Speaker 1 (56:48)
It's

probably gonna take about to eat that much, right?

Speaker 2 (56:51)
my god, no when he's done with something he's done. Yeah, he's just like that's it I'm moving on

Just, but thinking like, most of our travel mishaps have either been from a knowledge gap, like, how does this work? Or, my gosh, you know, nine times out of 10, as I'm thinking back about these things, it was spots where we needed medical care. Or like we were really afraid, you know.

Speaker 1 (57:12)
Yeah.

You know, because both of us have gotten sick on our travels while we've been there, which sucks because you're there and you don't want to... happens. I mean, even our most recent misadventure was the five pound charge to drop you at the terminal on a Heathrow. Knowledge gap. Knowledge gap. So our goal is... Well, and that's part of what our expertise, we have these experiences so we can tell you about them. So you are forewarned.

Speaker 2 (57:22)
But it happens.

That's part of travel.

Speaker 1 (57:43)
you

Speaker 2 (57:43)
So

what's the key takeaway? If you need medical... No, please travel with a one-year-old. Don't let it stop you. No, we didn't. And then we traveled the next year with a two-year-old and a six-month-old. Now that was insane. But we did it, and we still had a great time and made really lovely family memories.

Speaker 1 (57:46)
Don't travel with a one-year-old.

We didn't let them stop us.

but they haven't been back since.

Speaker 2 (58:07)
I

guess the less thought about that the better but I will say this So if you're listening to this and you're like what? What are some things we learn now as an American if you need medical attention, you can go to the emergency room They will treat you. They will help you Well, I mean everybody's gotta get paid I mean, that's a very American way to think about it, but you can also if it's something that's emergent

Speaker 1 (58:20)
of the A &E.

might send you a bill.

Go to the pharmacy.

Speaker 2 (58:34)
You

can go to a pharmacy and they can help you with any of the things that we talked about. Like they can be, they're actually helpful. And I'm not knocking you as pharmacists either. just, pharmacies operate a little differently.

Speaker 1 (58:48)
They're not all like Mrs. Tishel on Doc Martin

Speaker 2 (58:50)
Ha! Anyway, okay.

Speaker 1 (58:52)
Okay, so we have not even gotten through half these questions and we are over an hour already. can't, no, these are key questions.

Speaker 2 (58:57)
All right, so pick one last question.

gosh, should this be a two parter?

Speaker 1 (59:02)
It's gonna go as as it's gonna go, Someone asked.

Speaker 2 (59:06)
482

of the podcast.

Speaker 1 (59:08)
Someone asked I'm leery of driving in the UK. I need to run a car certainly But is there any kind of driving class or learning to drive on the left and the rules of the road? So this is a really good question and a question we get a lot because a lot of Americans are very afraid to drive in the UK And so rather than spend 20 minutes on this question We did an episode of the podcast about driving in the UK and it's actually one of our most popular episodes Cute few so will link it out in the show notes

But basically driving in the UK is a lot like driving here. It's just on the opposite of the road. And once you're on the opposite of the road, like you'll pick it up. Your brain figures it out. You'll figure it out.

Speaker 2 (59:43)
It took me 20 years to figure it out, but I've got it now.

Speaker 1 (59:47)
Don't

let that put you off. Get the AA guide to Britain's roads. will tell you the differences in the rules and speed limits and all that and teach you the signs, which the signs can be sometimes incomprehensible. But after about an hour of driving in the UK, you kind of had it figured out.

Speaker 2 (1:00:05)
be

courteous, be kind, remember you're a guest. People will go around you. People will go around

Speaker 1 (1:00:08)
and just take your time. You're not in a hurry.

the speed limit because you'll get speeding tickets there too thankfully I've never gotten a speeding ticket in the UK because I always Yes We'll skip that one that could be an episode So well someone asked what are the best attractions to see outside of you outside of London, that's a whole episode. Yeah, that's like 10 episodes Funny one

Speaker 2 (1:00:20)
Miracle.

We got a lot of great questions. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (1:00:34)
What are the health consequences of saying color with the letter U in it? Straight to prison.

Speaker 2 (1:00:40)
straight to prison. What's funny about that is so every once in a while I'll pop onto your computer for something and your computer grammar checkers and spell checkers are set to British English. So I'll do client work and it like color with a U, favorite with a U and I'm like.

Speaker 1 (1:00:41)
we have

Someone asked, they're surprised that we are Indiana. Yes, we are based in Northwest Indiana. We've lived here our whole lives.

Speaker 2 (1:01:04)
Yep. More Chicago land area.

Speaker 1 (1:01:06)
Bye.

I

mean, we kind of think of ourselves as Chicagoland. We're an hour from Chicago. We're closer than most Chicago suburbs where we are.

Speaker 2 (1:01:15)
We're...

which is great when you want to fly out of O'hare direct

Speaker 1 (1:01:22)
Yeah,

that's one of the primary reasons is there's like 20 flights a day to Britain from O'Hare and we're an hour and half from the airport. And we also like living adjacent to a world class city like Chicago because Chicago is the best. And we live in the country and it's great. And we have a nice house. So as you can see, a library. OK, it's nice.

Speaker 2 (1:01:36)
Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 (1:01:43)
someone asked, what books have you read about British history that entertained you the most? Now, this question kind of applies to me, not to you. There's a pile of books here. In fact, I pre-staged? The Decline and Fall of the British Aristocracy by David Cannadine. This is a formative book in my Anglophilia.

because it gives you the entire history of basically the quote fall of the British aristocracy in the 20th century, which began in the 19th century. It's very big. This one of my favorite books. And the same subject, Brideshead Revisited by Evelyn Wall, not a history book, but it's set in the decline of the aristocracy, but in the heyday of the 1920s and 30s and the interwar period, one of my favorite periods, history.

Highly recommend that and the drama. The drama's great. I recommend The Iron Lady by John Campbell. Margaret Thatcher is a very controversial figure, but she's a fascinating figure. Usually the answer to is why is Britain the way it is now? She's usually the answer in The Long Tail. So highly recommend learning about her, even if you don't like her. Mr. Churchill's Profession.

Many people don't know that Winston Churchill actually made his living as a writer because at the time, least for most of his life, MPs weren't even paid. And so this is about his career as a writer and about how he is a man of letters. And, you know, when he won the Nobel Prize, it was for literature. So. I have a lot of most of his books on the shelf behind me. His history of English speaking peoples is his most famous.

Speaker 2 (1:03:03)
Yeah, you have all this.

Speaker 1 (1:03:11)
that gives you a history of the English speaking peoples from Roman times to now. He also wrote a six volume history of World War Two, considering he was heavily involved. I mean, he would know. And then this last one I read a few years ago is one of my favorite books about English history. called The Last Wolf by Robert Winder. And it explains the history of what we

would call Englishness and it begins with England's eradication of wolves on the island of Great Britain. So it's a fascinating tale about that we use landscape and natural history and culture and it's super good.

someone asked what do the what do english people do on christmas eve which i thought was a good question because we actually haven't really covered that on a lot of our christmas stuff

They do carol services. So a lot of people will watch carols from Kings on Christmas Eve. It's broadcast. and Nativity plays. So in America, we leave milk and cookies out for Santa and Britain, they leave out mince pies and sherry. So and as you know, yeah, as we're Santa, I mean, that appeals more.

Speaker 2 (1:04:14)
wine.

Speaker 1 (1:04:19)
Christmas light tours have become popular in recent years. We've seen a few of those at the Homes. Christmas parades? Not really, they don't do parades. no, okay. But like, the light displays we've been to at the Stately Homes. yeah, Longleat did one? Yeah, they do the pantomimes in the Stately Homes.

Speaker 2 (1:04:34)
Pantomimes, that's a huge one. But I don't know if they do it on Christmas.

Speaker 1 (1:04:36)
Yeah,

I don't know if they do it either A lot of people will watch TV on Christmas Eve a lot of Christmas specials will air on Christmas Eve Including the snowman channel for broadcast that every year on Christmas Eve Basically Britain kind of starts to slow down for the big day Which is nice so One more question,

Speaker 2 (1:04:57)
which is really lovely.

Speaker 1 (1:05:04)
Someone asked if you remove the Norman Conquest and Winston Churchill out of the equation, what moment person in British history, in your opinion, made the biggest and longest lasting impact and why? That's a really good question. I've been thinking about this one for like a week. And my answer is a social reformer, a lawyer, and a priest walk into a pub. So my answer is Octavia Hill.

Sir Robert Hunter and Hardwick Rawnsley they're the founders of the National Trust. And I think they have done more to protect the land. The founding of the National Trust has done more to protect Britain's natural and built landscape in any other organization. And we wouldn't be able to experience Britain as we know it today if the National Trust didn't exist. So that's my answer is the National Trust.

Do you have an answer? What about Edward Jenner?

Speaker 2 (1:05:56)
Yeah, incredible individual. I did. You know what? I'm going to say Edward Jenner's wife.

Speaker 1 (1:05:58)
You really liked that when we visited. So.

Speaker 2 (1:06:05)
Yes, and he had children. okay. And basically was like, hey, honey, I'm going to do the smallpox vaccine on our kids. I really think it will work. So I'd say Edward Jenner's wife like that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (1:06:17)
So final question, and so we can wrap this up. Yes. your 20 years of being dragged to Britain repeatedly, don't know. What has been your favorite experience?

Speaker 2 (1:06:22)
Podcast marathon folks

Is it drugged or is it drugged?

that's a big question. My most favorite, like of all time? My most favorite of all time or my most favorite of all time that others can recreate?

Speaker 1 (1:06:43)
Yeah, something that other people could do, I guess.

Speaker 2 (1:06:45)
Okay, let me think.

I've got lots of favorites. like,

Speaker 1 (1:06:49)
We're

already over on time, so go ahead.

Speaker 2 (1:06:51)
Borough Market. Love Borough Market. If you're a foodie like me, Borough Market. Definitely do that. Yeah. Literally eat my way through Borough Market. You want to go get something to eat? No, I'm full. Thanks. where is it? Islington. take the tube up to Islington. There's an alleyway full of

Speaker 1 (1:06:57)
I think you've done that more than once, haven't you? I've only been it once.

Speaker 2 (1:07:10)
antique stalls exceptionally cool there used to be a there might even still be a great knitting shop up there called loop you could take a whole afternoon and do all the stalls that's the antique shops really really amazing like favorite thing we've just we've been so lucky bless for the years we have and we've

Speaker 1 (1:07:28)
We've so much.

Speaker 2 (1:07:30)
Mead, we've had so many incredible opportunities to do some of the things we did, like the private tour of St. Paul's. Like, to be able to go and see places and things that, you know, and have access to things that are not common has been just such an incredible treat. But okay, I know what I'm going to say. And it's going to be so like folks just warning you now you're going to end up with cavities.

Just spending the time with you. we are so busy in our daily lives that getting to go explore and just see you like, you're like peak happy Jon like whether we're in the countryside or we're in London, like we've had so many incredible experiences, like Land's End to John O'Groats, like went from strength to strength.

taking the sleeper train back to London, that was huge. We've had the opportunity to stay in just some of the most beautiful, historic places across Britain where you're like, a king or queen was here, just so much history happened on the grounds here. Christmas, we've done a couple Christmases. Christmases in the cottage.

that was, we've been very, very lucky to have just really, so I don't think it's one. I think there are lots of little things. And so the things that people can recreate, like.

Speaker 1 (1:08:55)
Spend a holiday in a little cottage in the countryside and do all of the, do British Christmas because British Christmas is awesome. Have a night out on the town in London. Go see a show and book in for a nice dinner or just do a nice dinner. Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (1:09:12)
Thanks

Speaker 1 (1:09:16)
Okay, now we're back to food and I'm hungry again. But what's yours?

Speaker 2 (1:09:19)
Two things. Obviously traveling with you. I can't top that.

Speaker 1 (1:09:24)
This is the guy

who's like, can I go alone to Britain this summer?

Speaker 2 (1:09:27)
But I'm always asking that question, so you shouldn't be surprised by this point. Two experiences are kind of top tier. One which I've talked about ad nauseam, which people are probably, long time fans are probably sick of hearing about, is...

The first time I visited Gold Hill and Shaftesbury Dorset. And then you were key to that happening. You made it happen. You did the anti-millennial thing and picked up the phone to sort it out.

Speaker 1 (1:09:52)
up.

We had come that far we were not not going.

Speaker 2 (1:09:55)
Yep, that's why I married this woman. Damn the torpedos

Speaker 1 (1:09:59)
You

asked me to marry you on that trip. I did. I think that was like the day after.

Speaker 2 (1:10:03)
And so, and I think it's because I dreamed of going to this place for so many years and then to go and just, and to walk around the corner of the town hall and then there it is. And they're like, this place is real. Like it's actual real place. It's not just in a picture. And.

Speaker 1 (1:10:20)
Now in the age of AI and all that though, right? It'll be interesting to see like our kids' generation or if our children have children, like how that perception will change.

Speaker 2 (1:10:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, and I think it was it like opened a door that like Britain is full of these beautiful places.

Speaker 1 (1:10:38)
I opened the door? Now you tell me. It's your fault.

Speaker 2 (1:10:41)
It's

your fault. okay. That there's so many of these wonderful places in Britain to see and that they're real places that you can go to. it's just, it's such a meaningful moment. It's like a foundational moment in my life and in Anglotopia. And I think it's still hard to top seeing it for the first time. And I've been back.

dozen times since and every time it still just gets me like it's I have to die on that hill.

Speaker 1 (1:11:08)
Please

don't. God, the poor emergency. Like they're going to be like, can we just wait till he rolls down to the bottom? The picture of the cheese rolling down the hill, it's just us rolling. It's true. All right. So what's your second?

Speaker 2 (1:11:10)
I'll dying walking up because it's so steep.

So.

That's how he wanted to go.

My second

would it is my and I've it's actually because it's my favorite experience I've done it twice would be is doing the summer courses at Oxford. I love doing those. Those are my favorite. You know, I I didn't get to go to Oxford University. I went to a state school, which is fine.

Speaker 1 (1:11:42)
You went to a great school!

Speaker 2 (1:11:45)
I went

to the best state school. to Purdue. That's right. But I didn't get to study in the cloistered confines of Stony Oxford.

Speaker 1 (1:11:48)
Yeah, boiler up!

I didn't get to study. Man, you got a college education. got a, my French, a damn good college education.

Speaker 2 (1:12:01)
But as an adult, it's lovely that you can go have an Oxford experience for a week and do a course that interests you with other people who are interested in the same thing that has excursions to go do things related to the thing you're studying. It's great. And that you're fed and watered and you have accommodation for the whole week and you get to spend it on Oxford, which is one of the best cities in Britain. So, in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (1:12:24)
want

to add an honorable mention. You know what my favorite thing to do in Britain is?

Yes, kind of, is to have an amble around a National Trust property. Not the grounds, the grounds are gorgeous, but you, like, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (1:12:38)
that nosy

Speaker 1 (1:12:40)
You literally

get to walk around like on a rainy day you go in the middle of the week Nobody's there. Don't go on half term. Nobody's there It's it's cold and drizzly and you're basically having a wander Somebody's house who used to live there and then like tea I mean how many times have we been to a National Trust property? and it's like the cafe are in the stable blocks and you were like

huddled over like a cup of tea like cause it's freezing in the stable blocks eating but the tea is like steaming and you have that that lovely sandwich and like or a bowl of soup or you know National Trust property cafes are they're phenomenal so that's probably like if I rather than a bunch of little ones it's a it's a rainy afternoon in the middle of the week

Speaker 2 (1:13:29)
I

mean, I think we're pretty much in agreement on that. Because even when we're there, we kind of plan our days around going to National Trust properties and walking around. when we were just in the Cotswolds, I think we visited several in a short amount of time.

Speaker 1 (1:13:31)
That is like a phenomenal way to spend an hour.

And it's a tangible way to learn about history. Like when you learn about the people who lived in the house, it's so interwoven with world history, not just British history. Like, it's amazing. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (1:14:01)
that was a lot of questions. We didn't answer them all, but we have talked long enough. I think we clocking in at here one and a half hours. Folks, so you have listened to us talk long enough. Yep. So that thank you for listening to the Anglotopia podcast. Thank you for sitting down to do this with me today. You're my lovely wife.

Speaker 1 (1:14:03)
They were great questions.

Exactly.

Sorry, folks.

Speaker 2 (1:14:23)
And thanks for getting us to 50 episodes now. We're gonna have to plan something big for the hundredth episode next year

Speaker 1 (1:14:29)
I have ideas. yeah? Yeah, I'll tell you off camera.

Speaker 2 (1:14:30)
Yeah, totally.

If you enjoyed today's discussion, please subscribe, like us, or leave a comment, or if you have questions, please ask us questions because we love doing the Q &A's. If you enjoy all the things that Anglotopia does, please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia Club so we can keep doing it. You get early access to new episodes of the podcast. You get a special newsletter on Sundays about something lovely and British, discounts,

Speaker 1 (1:14:57)
That's

written by a human.

Speaker 2 (1:14:58)
written by human monthly desktop wallpapers, all kinds of wonderful things. So please come join. Link is in the show notes. So join us next time as we continue to explore British history, travel and culture. Thank you.