Jonathan Thomas (00:01.358)
Welcome! Wait, why don't you let me sit?

Jonathan Thomas (00:15.406)
Welcome back to the Anglotopia podcast. This is our second podcast in the new series. And thank you for all the kind words after we published the last episode, everyone was very happy to see us back. We had such nice comments on our YouTube channel and on our Facebook. So we're very excited to have resumed the podcast and we have lots of exciting topics to talk about. We have lots of exciting guests who will be coming on the podcast in the next few weeks and.

It's going to be a lovely celebration of all things British going forward, as it always has been. And we hope that you'll come along and listen. And this week we thought we'd start with something a little fun. We thought we'd talk about British children's literature that we read when we were growing up that influenced us, that influenced me with Angotopia and also the British media that our own children have consumed as they've.

as they've grown up and how things have changed. And we'll talk about our favorites. You can see we have some of them on the table. If you're watching on the video, we have our table is staged with lots of British, British books. And so part of the reboot of the podcast is we will, we will be doing tea when we have our discussions. And so we'll, we'll talk about this week's tea as we, as we get ready to talk about British children's literature. So do you want to pour?

Yeah, I can pour. So this tea is one of my, is my fourth favorite tea. Fourth favorite. And it's the, it's the house blend of Christchurch College at Oxford. It's not called Christchurch College. I know someone's going to correct me in the comments. It's just called Christchurch. And when I did a summer course a couple of years ago, this is the tea that they serve in the great hall for breakfast every day.

And so it's their own custom house blend from Twist Tea. And I just loved it when I was there. And so before I left, I was sure to buy, they sell it in the Christchurch gift shop. And ever since when I run out, you can only get it from the Christchurch gift shop. So you have to import it to the US from them. And it's a lovely flavorful blend. And I am excited to drink it today because I haven't had it in a while. So that's today's tea blend.

Jonathan Thomas (02:43.886)
I guess it's kind of fitting, right? That we're having a tea from Oxford. Yeah. So much literature. Yeah. Some of the people we'll be talking about had an influence on Oxford. And, for the record, this is not sugar. I'm not, I'm not piling the sugar into my tea. yeah. Yeah. That's not sugar. It is a zero calorie sweetener that I buy on Amazon.

And it's, I'll put a link in the show notes. It's stevia monk fruit in a mixture of a bunch of things that it's like the closest approximation that I could find to sugar. That's completely artificial and has zero calories. Cause I'm on a diet. So, I have to watch my sugar intake. And I was, you know, when I drink three or four cups of tea a day, that's a lot of sugar. And I love having sugar in my tea, which some people would not approve of, but I'm sorry. I like it sweet. So no sugar in my tea. Thank you.

So I will put the link to this sugar in the show notes because it actually tastes really good. It's the of all the artificial sweeteners I've come across this. This tastes like actual sugar. So all right, well, let's dive right in. I thought we would start with what is the first British story or your favorite British story that you remember from being a child and tell us all about it. OK.

So my very most favorite story of all time is the Velveteen Rabbit. My mom read it to me when I was really small and I absolutely hands down through my entire childhood that was my favorite story and I had a stuffed animal growing up and you know.

the premise of that story is there's a child who loves a velvet teen rabbit enough that eventually the rabbit becomes alive. And I can't remember. It's been a really long time. I know that the girl or the boy in the book gets scarlet fever and I can't remember if the child survives or doesn't survive. But I know that the rabbit does and through the child's love the

Jonathan Thomas (05:06.478)
rabbit becomes a real rabbit. And like the end of the book, like the rabbits like bouncing out in the garden. and so growing up as a child, I had a stuffed animal and this stuffed animal, I, my mom used to tell me like, if you love it enough, it will, you know, because I was very, very small. And so, which was absolutely lovely. and I, I think it's a great metaphor for life though.

as an adult, like when I look back at it, I don't think that that was probably the original intention of the book. I think it's a lovely story, but that if you love something enough and you pursue it enough that you can essentially make it happen. I don't think you can make like a stuffed animal come alive, but if you're pursuing your goals, I think you can make it. Like Kinkletopia. Yeah, exactly. You love your goal enough that you make it happen. Did you know that I had a Velveteen Rabbit?

And it was my lovely and I loved the story as well when I was a kid. I did not know that. My mom probably still has it somewhere. Probably. Knowing her. So sweet. She's so sweet. But our daughter actually had a rabbit that I bought for her at Harrods for her very, that first Christmas she spent in England, remember? Yeah, Jelly Cat. Yeah, we found this like Jelly Cat brand rabbit. And that was her rabbit.

for brown bunny that was brown bunny. We had a backup brown bunny and we bought many more bunnies. Lots and lots of bunnies. But anyway, so maybe I don't know, maybe that had an influence on.

So my formative British childhood media was the works of Roald Dahl. And I was exposed to it at school. I believe in third grade in Mrs. Barnum's third grade class. And she read during story time, she read us Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, which kids, you know.

Jonathan Thomas (07:10.286)
It's a chocolate factory. Kids love Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. I mean, it's one of the most iconic children's stories there is. And then we... But she didn't stop there. She... After that, then we read James the Giant Peach, Matilda. And so, like, I didn't know it, you know, in third grade, but I was being exposed to these very, very British stories. Yes. And, you know, and to add more cloud to it, like when...

the movie for Matilda came out, like they stripped the Britishness out of it. So I always thought it was like, it felt like an American story. And now, but now looking back, like we've got the role, like you can't throw off camera, but I can actually, yeah, we've got, we've got, I actually went and found your copy. Yeah. So, so we had our, when we had our, when you got pregnant, we bought this, the set of all the books at Costco. Yeah. You're going to have to.

Yeah, so this is Yeah, it's a box set from Costco that had all the books I was like, sweet I'll get them all at once for for our kids and they never read them No, I think Mabel may have a William William doesn't Williams on it much of a reader. He's more mechanically inclined So he'd never really read them But though I read some of them to them Yeah, she really liked Mabel our daughter Mabel. She really likes Matilda

She loves the movie and she loves the musical more. She's really into musicals. Did you know my fourth grade teacher actually, Mrs. Kacharski. Name drop. Could tell we're definitely outside of Chicago. Read Matilda to us in fourth grade and it was like a treat at the end of the day. Like, I don't know. It felt like a half hour, but it was probably like 10 minutes where she'd just read a chapter. And then that was the school year, right? Like.

The Matilda movie came out that summer, but then we did Charlie and the Travel Factory and we did a bunch of the Roald Dahl books and they were just they were so great. Like that is such a great age for those books. Yeah, I know Roald Dahl as a person has kind of fallen out of fashion because he was a notoriously not nice man, but his stories have been so timeless and he built such rich worlds within each book that are just so imaginative.

Jonathan Thomas (09:34.126)
They're so geared for children. And so geared towards children because they're filled with horrible people. They're filled with horrible situations that children just love. Well, the children are the heroes in those books. Right? Yeah. In a world of grownups that don't always get it right, the children. In a world of childhood trauma, these children usually, you know. Yeah, I mean, in a Roald Dahl book, yes, that's completely fair. And two of my favorite Roald Dahl books were his actually his autobiographies.

These were a big influence on me and I actually wrote about these so if you're not watching yeah, so it's boy tales of childhood and going solo Which is the thrilling sequel to boy as it's built on the cover and boy is his childhood memories of growing up and in the Welsh countryside as His mother was I believe Norwegian so he asked us in a lot of time in Norway as a child

And then going solo was when he was a grownup and he was an RAF pilot and like super exciting stuff when you're 11 years old. I remember being at the family lake cottage as a child. And this is like the only thing I did the entire weekend was read this book. And it's, you know, looking back, there's a lot in this that really.

that like became some of my personality traits. really? I never read that one. Like, you know, the love of British airplanes and the love of the British history and British military and World War II and all that. Like very formative book for me. And I loved, I loved the stories of Roald Dahl. And then it's a shame there, you know, that, you know, I couldn't really get the kids into them, but. You never know. Never know. There's still time. There's still time.

But those were the formative books for us. And so, but there are like, as we were discussing this as a topic for the podcast, we kept going like, and what about, and then there's this and then like, and it became really clear to both of us how much of British literature and British,

Jonathan Thomas (11:50.702)
British literature that started as literature and then became cartoons and that kind of thing and how much that it's been exported globally. Yeah, and it's it's not just beloved here in the US, but it's beloved worldwide and like things like Paddington Bear and Winnie the Pooh and Beatrix Potter Beatrix pot like those are completely global now like you can go to just about any spot on the globe and

Chances are somebody's gonna know at least one of the three and someone and Paddington Paddington was huge before the movies I remember the books. Yeah, you know, I remember the Paddington books. I had to have a Paddington coat actually I remember when when you came to England for the first time with me. Yeah and 2004 And we stepped off the Heathrow Express at Paddington station and walked out onto the street. You're like this looks like

Paddington Bear. This looks like the storybook. And I was like, yeah, you like London. I like you too. It looks like it did. It looked like, it looked like a children's book to me because right. I had been kind of drip fed this very British. Yeah. But that's, that's what it is. Yeah. So like I, yeah, I had to have the, I desperately wanted a wool coat with, with toggles.

And I have one now. I have the duffle coat with the toggles. See, it just, it took me quite a few years. We're not going to even say how many years it took me to get there, but, and your mom actually brought me back a Paddington bear. Remember? Like a really nice one. It's somewhere and it's packed away nicely. I know that, but it was like a really like, but the quality was really good. Yeah, we got it. I think we got it from the Paddington.

Store before there was before the movies there was this used to be a Paddington store in Paddington station there might still be I'm not completely sure I've been there no no that's where the Beatrix Potter store was which is like just not there anymore either also just yeah to speak to how Tourists are looking for these things when they travel. Yeah, like I mean you can't You can't swing a cat for how many Harry Potter stores there are now. my gosh, but we'll get to Harry Potter a little bit. Yeah, so

Jonathan Thomas (14:11.982)
What, so let's like throw out some, cause we made it this huge list and we won't talk about everyone on the list. And we apologize in advance if we're not talking about your favorite. There are so many, like, and as we started to do research for this podcast, I was like, there is like, this would be a 40 podcast. Yeah, we can talk for hours about this, but let's try to keep it to 45 minutes. So we, we're going to talk about the things that.

that influenced us and that we remember and that we shared with our children. And then please, please share in the comment thread on Angotopia or on YouTube. Please share your favorites and on the Facebook page as well. Your favorite childhood. We would love to have a conversation going because this is a two way conversation. Absolutely. Before we start naming off franchises, which is such a feels like such a coarse word.

Beloved childhood memories. I want to recommend this book. It's called The Great British Dream Factory by Dominic Sandbrook. And it is a cultural history of Britain's exported culture around the world and talks about all the how Britishness is infused within world culture. They also made a TV companion documentary series about but I don't think it's available in the US.

But you can probably find it on YouTube. I'll put links in the show notes But it's a Dominic Sandbrook. He He's an excellent cultural historian and knows his stuff about these things and he goes back to the roots of a lot of the stuff that That is behind a lot of this beloved stuff that you wouldn't even think so highly recommend the great British dream Factory And I will put that over here and stop fanboying about Dominic Sandbrook. It's my it's my it's my favorite podcast the rest is history, so

podcast crush completely. Yeah. So, why don't you go first? Name something you remember from being a child. Let me see, like, cause we've got a pretty big list here. I'm just checking our show notes. Let's see. let's talk about Beatrix Potter. Like, I never really read her much as a child. What about you? you know, Peter, Peter, cotton tail and the I'm good. Thank you. And the, the tail of the Flopsy bunnies.

Jonathan Thomas (16:33.294)
and Mr. McGregor's Garden, like that one we read. And then when we did, I feel like we did different British books for our kids. Like we did Beatrix Potter for Mabel, our daughter, but I don't remember reading them to Will, our son, but we started to collect them.

Every time we went, like I would find, I would find them. You are clink, like whoever is listening to you is part of the atmosphere we're creating here. Sorry about the tea or China clinking. But we, you know, what's crazy is our kids are getting a little older and they're, they've definitely made that shift from like little kids into moving. Like they're definitely older kids and moving beyond that. And so like,

I think it was last summer, like I switched out the bookshelf and I like, I know it was, I was a mess because I read, I read to our kids every single night. And so, but we read so many of those Beatrix Potter books to our daughter. But we read other really great books to our son that were a little more geared towards his interests. Yeah. I mean, he's,

He loved tractors and cars and trains and construction equipment. We did a lot of the Oliver Jeffries books. Yeah, which we have. We actually have one here. Those like, you know, you know when you're a parent and you have to read to your kid at night, sometimes it feels like a chore and sometimes it's a joy to do. And some nights when you're reading a story, you really dislike over and over again. Or it's like the 700th time. Yeah, I don't like, I really don't want to read.

The the polar express again, but like the out streams dad But the Oliver Jeffries books are a joy to read every single time I like I think I love those books more than our kids love those books. Yeah, you read you read I had a sad a sad Yeah, and we would travel we would find all the new ones cuz they he's British so they would come out in England first So we would get them when we traveled. They are very Ronald doll esque rolled rolled. Sorry, it's American

Jonathan Thomas (19:01.87)
wrong but they very much have the spirit of very imaginative there's one remember the one where the boy like there's one with the penguin right where like he like goes to the north pole and gets a penguin it's yeah they're really sweet books yeah yeah they're very they're very out there but also they're just they're sweet they're imaginative they're so imaginative and i believe some of his stories have been adapted into animations on apple tv

That makes so you can see animated if you know our kids had grown out of Oliver Jeffries by the time they made him speaking of Animated the Fox. What was it that we watched over Christmas? the boy the horse and the It's a fox. Yeah. Yeah, I have the book somewhere. Yeah, that's British, right? Yeah. Yeah If you haven't seen that one on Apple TV like get a box of tissue, yeah You're gonna need it. It will completely wreck you but in a good way.

Yeah. So another British one, but like super recent, right? Like just continuing that, that tradition. So what was another one? Paddington bear. Yeah. We talked a little bit about Paddington bear. So, and then Winnie the Pooh. Winnie the Pooh. Famous bears. Yeah. Winnie the Pooh is a hard one because a lot of the Winnie the Pooh that American children are exposed to is the Disney Winnie the Pooh. Right. Which is

Which has almost nothing to do with the original Winnie the Pooh or the names and settings. Which is the sweetest, the original by AAML. Yeah, so if you can get the original AAML books, they're Triumphs of Children's Literature. Well, and do you remember when I found out I was pregnant with William, I found... We had a set. Well, I found a book, it was called like When We Were Young, and it fits, and I apologize, I have a knowledge gap here, it fits somewhere in that...

I think it was a collection of poems and I found it at a secondhand book sale in Shaftesbury, like a charity sale when we were still, I don't even know if we, I think we got engaged on that trip. Yeah, we were probably still in college. And the illustrations in it were so beautiful. They were like watercolor. And when I found out I was pregnant with William, I made, like I painted watercolor prints of him for his room and they are, we still have them. Yeah.

Jonathan Thomas (21:26.986)
Yeah, they're so sweet. They're so sweet. As a boy, a big part of my childhood was Arthurian legends. King Arthur and Knights of the Round Table and Guinevere and all that. I ate all that stuff up. What about you? Not so much. I mean, I knew of it, but it wasn't... And I wasn't... I don't know. I think...

I kind of more fell into that Disney version of Princes and Princesses and like, and I, you know, I mean, like my childhood was in the 90s, late 80s, 90s. So, you know, this was back when Disney was kind of cranking out their, their films. And so like the concept of princess and princes and all of that really like,

the British literature, although some of it comes from there, it didn't. My idea of princes and princes was really kind of Disney -fied. So, yeah, Disney was a big part of my childhood, too. I had the Disney Channel growing up, so I was spoiled growing up. A cable, the Disney Channel. We had very different childhoods. Yeah. That's OK. Peter Pan. Peter Pan. You know, I remember again, Disney -fied. though we were.

What were you saying about? That that for at least for our generation Coming up in the 90s Hook was our Peter Pan was huge and that is a very like it is this I consider that like a fusion of The British bits and then like the fun American bits like you could think of the British like the the British parts of the movie where he's still in London like the British bits and then like the

The Neverland is like the manic American part of the movie. Well, he's British, and the kids are American. Right. And so it's like a hybrid. And they play baseball. Remember they play baseball. And he's like, your dad never attended your games. And I remember as a kid being like, yeah. And now as an adult, I'm like, hey, buddy, you know, his dad is working really hard. Yeah, it's hard to get to all those games. But.

Jonathan Thomas (23:48.174)
No, I think you're so right and it's julia roberts is tink right? Yeah, it's tinkerbell. And what's weird though is is like film critics like hate that movie a lot of and like a lot of people won't put that on their best list of the 90s but like a lot of regular people I like like us like we love hook like hook is beloved in amongst our generation because it's like, you know, everyone knows rufio and yeah, you know That's not in

No, like in the original right like again, right? Where's the first place? I saw peter pan was the disney animated version, right? And then later hook so I probably don't know the actual reals like then you've got the john williams score I know it's so good like it's classic. It's so good, but then you try to watch it now though and you're like this this does feel a little overwrought Well, it's for children, but it's for children, but as a kid, I loved it especially

at the end when they have the battle of all the vegetables and paint and all that like it's so colorful like what about toodles and finding his bubbles or losing his bubbles are just so sweet it's so sweet but then when you do read Peter Pan there are so many elements in the movie that are in Peter Pan that they've just kind of they've just turned on its head or made more interesting and it's you know i've not i've not really enjoyed

other versions of Peter Pan since the way I've always liked Hook. Well I think it's a fun kind of glimpse into 90s culture right? To before, obviously before they go to Neverland. Yeah. But you know, he's got a cell phone and just... Well it was so glamorous going on the airplane to go to London and it's like... Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

Robin Williams is in that and he's so good in that he is he's the perfect character for yeah for that Just really because he can do serious and then childish. Well, and he could just He was like a one -man show all by himself. Yeah, you just turn on the camera Well in in that movie you feel like Robin Williams is shtick is very suppressed Until it's released in Neverland and then it's it's it's whoo Yeah, I like we should watch look this week it

Jonathan Thomas (26:05.942)
I was gonna say indie the Indian in the cupboard that was read to me and school I don't remember what grade but I remember it takes place in London it's a British boy who wants his little his little action figures in this cupboard to come alive and they do and it's I remember me very disappointed by the movie though I haven't seen the movie in 30 years but I always I always like I always like that one

What's next? Well, it's the big elephants in the room. Big elephants? Two of which you're not a huge fan of. I guess we'll talk about Harry Potter first. Okay. So, the Harry Potter... We grew up when the Harry Potter books are coming out. And we both... Whoa, hold on. Grew up or like we're at the tail end of childhood? Well, we were... we were...

We were not like kids. It was like 13 when they started coming out. I mean they can start coming out in 97. okay. So like we were coming up when the Harry Potter phenomenon was happening where it was like the biggest thing in the world. Yeah, and we both had two very different Harry Potter experiences because I love the books. I got them at Barnes and Noble in Merrillville. I remember the old Barnes and Noble. I do remember. We had more of our first dates there. Yep.

And it's not there anymore. No. How things change. And, you know, I burned through the books, the first ones that I think by the time I started reading them, the first three were out. I burned through those in like a month. Like I was like, I'm a fan. I'm enthralled. And then I was there. I went to the opening night, midnight opening nights for pretty much every Harry Potter book subsequently.

except for the last one, which by then I was a grown up and could order it online and have it delivered the same day, or release day. Well, I remember. I think we were dating. And one of the Harry Potter books came out and you were like, and we were like, we weren't engaged, but we were dating, like actively dating. And you were like, I'm just unavailable for the next 48 hours. And I was like, I'm sorry, what? You were like, I have to read the whole book before somebody spoils it for me. And I think, honestly, I think that's the one that was ruined for me.

Jonathan Thomas (28:33.006)
I have trauma of a famous death and the half -blood prince I have yeah, I have literary trauma and Because I back in back in those days. I worked for my father's business cleaning carpets and cleaning clean commercial premises and we were in somebody's house cleaning their house and they had gotten the book at the kids in that house had gotten the book at midnight and stayed up from midnight until

today and when I was there working to read the whole book and they shouted out, I can't believe me. But I was like, really? I'm not that fast as a reader. I was so upset. I was - You actually were really upset. I was really mad. But then, you know -

Harry Potter had a different life of its own though when it comes to the movies. I actually like the movies more than the books and I haven't read the books since they came out and I've watched the movies dozens of times and that's actually heresy to real Potterheads that you like the movies more but it's the vibe of the movies that I love and how imaginative they are and how all encompassing they are and they tell the story completely from beginning to end and...

I've just, even now, every Labor Day weekend I try and do a re -watch of all the movies which annoys her to no end because she's not a fan of the movies. Well, I think it's... Well, that's a good segue into... Yeah, into kind of why. Yeah, you grew up very different. I did. So my parents, and I just want to say that I am not making a commentary on religion of any way, shape or form, just blanket statement. Yeah, this is a happy place. My parents were...

very religious at that point in my childhood. Very conservative religion. And so for them, Harry Potter was wizardry and was, you know, demonic and like all of the, like, as an adult, I feel very differently about it. But at that time, Harry Potter was absolutely not allowed in my house. Like, we didn't do the books, we didn't do the films. Like, it was like...

Jonathan Thomas (30:51.278)
That was scorched earth. Like that was just a hard no, but which brings us to our next, which would be C .S. Lewis. So C .S. Lewis in that very conservative religious setting, C .S. Lewis was seen as absolutely okay to read and encouraged. And so Chronicles of Narnia, like I've read just about all of C .S. Lewis. Now, granted it's been like,

quite a long, long time, so like trying to jog my memory, but they were really, again, just beautifully imaginative books and like separating the religion from all of that, from this conversation because I don't want to go into that. Standing on their own as works of children's literature, they are just so unique and so that's, I did a lot of C .S. Lewis, so. Yeah, and I didn't.

So you did Harry Potter. Yeah, I did Harry Potter and yeah, I always, I was very snobby about the people who refused to read Harry Potter. Like, ugh. I just couldn't, I tried. I mean, even after we started dating, like, and... Like, you'll watch the movies, but you don't love them like I do. Well, I didn't have that relationship with the story, with the characters like you did, right? Yeah. Like... I grew up, you know, they were formative for me.

Well, they even did the Chronicles of Narnia into a film, like I want to say around 2000. In the mid 2000s. Yeah, somewhere around there. And I remember just meh. Yeah, that's I think it's how everybody felt about the films. I don't know. There might have been people who really loved them. I don't know. Netflix actually bought the Narnia rights and they're going to make big epic. They're going to like make their own movie series. That could be kind of cool. I mean, it's been 20 years, so it's about a cycle on the Hollywood work side. Right?

I mean, they're already talking about making or doing a reboot Harry Potter TV series. So it's, you know, we've done because you are such a big fan. Like we went when we went to York, we did the shambles roll, which is like considering Potter Street. One of the yeah, it's Harry Potter Street, but it's like one of the inspirations for Diagon Alley. We went to the Harry Potter experience, the studio tour.

Jonathan Thomas (33:12.654)
Yeah, what studios? I can't remember the name of the studio. Warner Brothers Studios in Leavesden. Yeah. Which I highly recommend doing. And it's actually still one of the - It was actually cool. It is like the most popular tourist attraction in London. Or it's not even in London, in that area. We did. And highly recommend it. We did want it, was it Paramount too?

Well, it was the Warner Brothers studio tour. Yeah, they they like had a Harry Potter thing in it because they're like, well, we're Warner Brothers. We've got to have Harry Potter right here somewhere. Even though they didn't make the movies in Hollywood at all. It was neat, though. It was a neat. And then I went to I went to Harry Potter land at Universal Studios. Yeah. When we were living in L .A., that was a fun experience because when we were living in L .A., I really wanted to go. But like when you would price it out, it was like it was like.

It was like three or four hundred dollars for the day for the just the four of us to go and I was like Just to get in and I'm like and then you've got food and and then we'll talk about this in a sec But our kids aren't really even in there Harry Potter So like so it never really appealed to like spend all that money for to make all of us go just for my pure entertainment. So Ironically, I got to go from from from a work work related outing. So what?

I was at a conference for work in LA that was nearby and they they rented out Harry the Wizarding World of Harry Potter after hours so that they could have the event there and they serve food and they kept all the attractions open and all the rides open for the people who were there. So here I was at like nine o 'clock on a on a weeknight going through it, doing all the rides, doing the wand experience. And it's like what was really was.

I'm happy that you got to live your dream. I'm not being silly. I literally experienced it the best possible way because there were no lines. There was very few people. But what was really amusing about it is these are really high power professionals, really important people in the industry I worked in. And they were just as thrilled and excited as I was to be at Harry Potter land. It was like it brings out the inner child and the inner joy of experience, something completely enjoyable. It was a lot of fun.

Jonathan Thomas (35:27.114)
Unfortunately, I can never really get our kids into Harry Potter. You tried. I tried. I tried so hard. Our son William, he doesn't like imaginative fantasy and stories. He's very analytical. He prefers to look at instruction manuals and mechanical manuals and he doesn't even like to watch movies. No.

He has a hard time with movies. There's a couple of them though that he'll watch. There's a couple that he'll watch, but he doesn't watch TV either. So that's not his journey, which is okay. Our daughter, she loves some elements of fantasy. She'll watch Harry Potter with me, but she's not really into it. And I think she made an effort, but it's just - Yeah, you even bought her the illustrated version. Yeah, I bought those for me, but -

Yeah, we have the illustrated versions and chill, you know, if you might sit down and watch it, but kids, kids interact with media so differently than we did. absolutely. And they don't like they'll happily, she'll happily binge a show. But sometimes a movie is like too much. And and she got really into anime and so like fantasy is not really her thing. So I don't know.

I'll have to wait for grandkids for them to impart the Harry Potter lore. Yikes. We're 40. Yikes. All right, what's next on the list? Lord of the Rings, your favorite. That's another pass from me. I read Lord of the Rings around when the movies came out in 2001. Started with The Hobbit.

So I was, let's see, in 2000, 2001, I was 15 or 16. No, you weren't. In 2001, we met in 2002. okay, so I was like 16 or 17. And so I came to Lord of the Rings late, but as Jackie will attest, Lord of the Rings is very important to me. Yeah. Lord of the Rings is big.

Jonathan Thomas (37:43.566)
In my life, I do a rewatch of all the films every Christmas, holidays, every Christmas break. I sit in the family den and rewatch all the movies and those are the mornings she sleeps in. Hey, I'm not, I'm not knocking your love of it. I just. Loyalty rings is not for her. And we like I've seen all the movies like we went to the midnight shows of all the movies back when they did midnight shows.

Which just speaks to how much I love you. True love. And I went to all the Harry Potter movies with you too. Like Midnight Showings. Like... Yeah. It's a lot of midnight movies. Yeah, they don't do midnight movies anymore, thankfully. Well. That's the reason, but it's... We wouldn't... We wouldn't talk about that on this podcast. Well, and not only that, like, we... Like, can we... What was it? I think it was Jamie Lee Curtis last year who was like, can we normalize having a...

concert at like 530 in the evening and I was like, yes! Yeah, if we don't start, if we're gonna watch a movie and we don't start it by 8 p that's a miniseries. It's a multi -night experience. But there's some other ones here. Robin Hood. Yeah. We grew up with the Kevin Costner Hollywood film. I loved that movie as a kid. Like I was probably too young to watch it as I watched it, but you know.

Loved that movie. So romantic. We've been to the castle. Yes, we have actually it was very cold the day we went to war It's old water castle and Wiltshire. That's Robin Hood's. I probably pronounced it wrong. So family home, right? The one that's burnt out. Yeah. Yeah I'm looking at our list and we didn't do Mog the Cat. because I didn't I wasn't Mog the Cat is like a British so that that it

Some of our very dear British friends, when they found out we were having children, said you've got to get the Mog, -O -G, Mog the Cat books. And I guess they are like beloved British classics. And so we had a couple of those, I think. And those, like, they're just the sweetest little books about a cat named Mog. And we, like, I feel like when our kids were really small,

Jonathan Thomas (40:08.11)
When we traveled back and forth to Britain, it was like, we bought more books for them, even though you could buy them here, but we were just, I guess it was buying the British versions as well, right? So things that had British spellings in them and that kind of thing. But those were just so, like, those make a great baby shower gift. So if you've got to buy for somebody, those are really nice gift. Or you could do a couple of the, like,

You do Mog, you do Beatrix Potter, you could do a couple of the books if you have to have a shower gift, something unique and fun. So why don't we move on to what our kids really liked. Yeah, well I kind of did, like Mog. Well, our daughter loved Peppa Pig. Yes, absolutely. Like there was a phase where Peppa Pig was pretty much on 24 -7 in our house. Yeah. And I didn't mind.

She actually liked a lot of British media and so I was... They didn't really watch. I was thrilled. Like, because we didn't do a lot of the Disney Channel. We... They did... There used to be a... I don't know if there's still a channel on cable here in the US called Sprout. Yeah. And they imported a lot of... A lot of British stuff. British, like they did Kipper. Yeah. my gosh. So sweet. Voiced by Martin Kloons. The sweetest show about a little dog. But Peppa Pig.

was huge in our house. She had the Peppa Pig play set. We bought all the Peppa Pig books we could buy. Yeah, see, if you're watching, there's some of the Peppa Pig books here on the table. I had to get ready for our podcast. So when I cleared off the bookshelf, the books came off the bookshelf, and then they went into a box. And the box got stored because they'd...

Like I emotionally am not ready to let go of those and I know that there's some that I will keep but eventually they do need to be donated somewhere where they can you know children can enjoy them so they're not forever in a box but I was like look at all the Peppa Pig books but what's really interesting about that is there are some words that even today she says with the British accent yeah

Jonathan Thomas (42:28.11)
We spent time while she was little in England, but not that much like and we're not around. Well, and if and if she tries, she can do a flawless little British accent. Yeah, she's she's 10 now. Yeah, but she can she can nail a British accent without even trying. Yeah. Like if you ask her to say the word costume, it's costume. Yeah. I'm like, what? Yeah. I remember back during the pandemic, there was a study done that said that.

or not a study there was an article out that said that because kids were interacting other kids and they were watching Peppa Pig so much that children were starting to develop British accent spontaneous British accents which I think is hilarious. It's all good I mean. Yeah. It's all good. There's worse things to go through life with a British accent right? I think a British accent is lovely. I know it's great. So what's left? she really likes Bluey.

Which is like, I didn't even know what that was. I thought it was a Disney Channel thing. It's on Disney Plus. Well, I thought it was like a Disney and it might actually be a Disney thing. I don't know. But she watches it even though she's kind of out of the she's aged out of it. Well, I guess it's like this cultural phenomena. Yeah. Like kids these days, everybody got excited when the aunt got pregnant because I guess they they talked about infertility issues, which. OK, like, OK, that's.

I don't know. I just I can see its appeal. It's very it looks very sweet I've never actually sat and watched it though But I know of people who don't have to do that anymore Well people friends of ours whose children are much much smaller like bluey is on 24 -7 like it is but Well, let's let's start to wrap it up. Why don't we talk about What's

What's a bit of children's literature that you really didn't like? That I didn't? Or that like upset you? Or are you like, I'm gonna want to read that one. I don't know if I had anything that like I was completely like, nope. I mean, I just had things that I didn't get into that just didn't pique my interest. Like I didn't get into Thomas the Tank Engine. my God. How did we now our son?

Jonathan Thomas (44:40.622)
He loved Thomas's Tank Engine. Yes. But that Thomas's Tank Engine is different than the one we grew up with. Yes. We need to clarify. Yeah. There's different Thomas, like the American version and the... Well, the one we grew up with, like they would take the British version and they would wrap it with... In Shining Time Station. Shining Time Station with Alan Baldwin or even George Carlin was a... Yeah, he was a conductor. Like, looking back now, like, George Carlin, really? Okay. Yeah. Okay. But I always like...

Maybe I was older than Thomas Tank Engine when it hit popularity in the 90s, but like I always thought, no, I don't like that. No, I watched it because it was on PBS. But I didn't watch TVS because I had cable. I watched a lot. See, we had this divide. We have we have cultural references that not that each other don't understand. Like I'll talk about Nickelodeon shows and she's just like, whoop. Yeah, I don't do Nickelodeon. A lot of PBS. But I just never really got a time to wish. I am the target.

audience for Thomas the Tank Engine. I love trains so much. You were kind of into it when Will was little because like the Isle of Sordor and it's very... Well, I learned what it was and I learned the inspiration of it that it's based on the Isle of Wight. Now I'm like, I really wish I had been more in Thomas Tank Engine when I was growing up. But that I feel like Thomas the Tank Engine as well is one of those kind of universal or globally exporting. Yeah. Like everybody will...

just about, I should not say everybody, but just about in most places on the Earth, like on the corner of the globe, you will, like if you pulled out that blue little tank engine, you were like, what is this? I really wish I had been in the Narnia when I was a kid. Yeah, they were really good. Because as being into Tolkien. Yeah, totally fits in that. Tolkien and Lewis were friends, like.

They, I've been to the Eagle and Child Pub in Oxford, like. Hence the Oxford Tea. They, like, I feel like, and we went and saw the play, Freud's Last Session, which C .S. Lewis is in, which we have, we need to watch the movie. And so I feel like I kind of missed out not being into C .S. Lewis because there's, he's kind of the corollary to Tolkien. He's the, he's like the opposite of Tolkien and.

Jonathan Thomas (47:02.222)
people consider him more accessible than Tolkien because Tolkien is dense and you know I mean look at Lord of the Rings it's a thousand pages but I kind of wish I had been in Anarnia growing up and I mean that's to stop me from doing it now. And they're great books I mean I feel like they're very they're very digestible I mean I was never a huge like fantasy fan I mean I read them in my early you know to mid -teen years because it was just kind of the thing.

to do in the, you know, in the culture that I was in. And so, you know, I read all of them, but and I enjoyed them, but I'm not as a whole. No, I'm not a huge fantasy fan. I think we established that on the last podcast, right? Yeah, I read them and they were enjoyable. What's interesting is things influence. You don't even realize it. All this British culture influenced me growing up, which led to my.

loving all things British. When I went to university, I studied English literature, always gravitated towards it. So. Well, I think it's interesting too, how much of it, how much of it was just naturally part of our childhoods. Right. And then as Anglophiles, how much of it there was like that.

Baseline and then we brought more into our children's lives because you know British friends and even Anglotopia readers like you got to get this book or that you know, like they've just been so many great And they're great American. yeah, like I mean, I mean dr. Seuss was a huge part of our both our childhoods. yeah That's like that's bread and butter. We can do another home podcast on American children's literature

for sure. That's not what this podcast is about. No, no, but. But yeah, I just I think that like you said, and I realized this when I wrote my book Adventures in Angotopia is that British culture is everywhere. Yes, it is. And American culture from a very, very young age. And nobody is like conspiring to put this there. It's just the stuff that's come over and been published here and gotten popular. And if it didn't get popular, it wouldn't be here.

Jonathan Thomas (49:21.582)
And so those stories have just resonated with generation after generation. And I think they'll continue to. And I think, and then there will be new imports and like Bluey is the latest craze. But I think, I think Bluey is kind of an offshoot to this conversation. And I am complete, like I have, I don't know if it started from book. I don't know. I don't know anything about it.

And I just kind of wonder what will be next what will hit the zeitgeist next, you know, what will be the next Harry Potter? What will be the next Peppa Pig? I think it will be something in the fantasy Genre because like somewhere in there because it's so popular. Well and young marketable and young adult literature is Crazy popular right now. Not just with young adults, but with actual adults and yeah, it's there's this desire for

young adult fantasy in the in the marketplace and there are lots of great great writers working in that in that in that realm now. Yeah. Hopefully me one day. Yeah, I hope so too. But children's literature or topic is children's British children. Well, and well, why a and children's literature overlap? I mean.

would you consider Harry Potter children's literature or your adult literature? I think the early ones I consider children's literature, but as they get further on in the story, the subject matter gets a little... Well, as the books get thicker and thicker and thicker. But I mean, look at... Look at all... Look at... Look at Roald Dahl, right? Like, some of the subject matter in those books are... And that's an interesting topic there, is that there's this...

you know, there's a movement where people really want children's books to be sanitized and not have anything horrible in them. But kids, kids love the horrible elements in brawl doll books. Yeah. I mean, who was your favorite? Like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory or Matilda? Like who was your favorite? The Trunchable was the best. Yeah. Like you - Who doesn't want to sit there and eat a whole cake? You couldn't wait to see -

Jonathan Thomas (51:34.894)
You know Matilda. Yeah, the bad guys get it at the end. Exactly that sense that the children could inflict Inflict justice or kind of write the yeah, right the course right for adults who had lost their way I mean, I think that's what makes those the role doll books just they're timeless Yeah, they don't they don't hesitate to to show you that there can be bad bad things in life But also that you can triumph over them. Well in that there can be bad adults. I

Like, not everybody's a good person. Yeah. So, but on that note, we should probably wrap up. So let us know in the comments what your favorite British childhood stories were, what resonates with you, what's resonated with your own children, if you have any. What what's your guilty pleasure that you still watch as a grown adult? Or or do we like?

Did we miss something massive? Yeah, I'm sure we did. I am 100 % certain we did. These things are always about what we left out, not what we put in. Well, I mean, it's only podcast is, you know, roughly an hour. So I mean, we're already clocking at 50 minutes or so here. So we should probably that's a long time to listen to us matter. All right. So with that being said, thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. And we'll see you next time. Yeah.

Have a good one.

Jonathan Thomas (53:09.166)
How's the cards fell?