Jonathan Welcome back to the Anglotopia podcast. We are childless right now, so it's time to record the podcast before we have to go get them. This week, we're going to talk about the National Trust and what it is, why it's important, all some tips to make the most of your visit to national trust property and to basically experience probably one of our favorite aspects of travel and culture in britain which is national trust Jonathan protection of the built environment cake teen cake and gardens and the way things are the very Jonathan british way things ought to be what she said yeah so um but first this episode and this is a first for the Anglotopia podcast. This episode is sponsored by the Royal Oak Foundation. And so we're going to talk about the Royal Oak for a few minutes and then we'll... Jonathan And I think as Americans, how can we not talk about Royal Oak? Because they do such good work. Jonathan Yeah, I agree. And we've had a relationship with them for several years now. And we entered into a formal relationship this past year where we're doing some marketing for them to our passionate audience of Anglophiles. So part of that is their sponsor and this episode of the podcast. And for those unfamiliar with the Royal Oak, the Royal Oak is the American friends, basically, of the National Trust. As Americans, we can't actually join the National Trust. You're not supposed to. The form won't let you on their website. That may have changed, but you're not supposed to. You're supposed to join the Royal Oak Foundation, which is their American affiliate. And what they do is they partner. They're like the official partner with the National Trust in the U.S. And they fund various programs in partnership with the National Trust. Every few years, they'll do a special fundraiser for specific things. Like last year they raised funds to keep Churchill at Chartwell, which was they raised several million dollars in funds to preserve the collection of Churchill artifacts that didn't belong to Chartwell already so they could stay there. And a couple years ago they did a fundraiser for Knoll House and some of the restoration work it did there. So they do very important work. In addition to that, membership in the Royal Oak has concrete benefits, and anybody can join, and it's not that expensive. The individual memberships, I believe, are under $50 a year. We have a family membership, which is like $100 a year. And then I'll get to this later, but key thing, Angletopia readers can get 20% off your membership by subscribing using our coupon code, which is Anglo2019. And you use that at the checkout and you can save 20% and then you can get the discounted rate. Now, what does membership get you? The big benefit is by joining, you get free entry into all National Trust properties in England and Wales and Scotland and Northern Ireland. So that's a huge savings because if you've ever visited a National Trust property, you know, it can be a little expensive to visit. admission for two adults plus kids plus, you know, can add up. And we've used this benefit a lot ourselves. I think we added it up for one of our recent trips and we saved like 225 pounds by having a membership, not paying the admission charges. So in addition to that, though, you get discounts on subscriptions to various magazines and organizations. You can save subscribing to the Angotopia magazine, in fact. You have to be a member to get the discount. And then you also get the quarterly National Trust print magazine, which is fun to read. And then you also get the handbook and parking pass, which I left on the desk in the other room and I meant to have it as a prop. But it's a guide to every property that the National Trust owns and you get free parking, which is another savings. And then one of the big things that the Royal Oak does here in the U.S. is they do a twice yearly lecture season in major cities around the U.S. where they'll bring over eminent British historians and authors. And they'll do a lecture series on usually the book they have coming out or whatever. And there's a book signing and a reception and everything. And we've gone to their stuff in Chicago quite a bit and we've written about it a lot. And as members, you get discounts on tickets to those. And, of course, because the Royal Oak is a charity, your donation to the Royal Oak is tax deductible. So thus ended the commercial part of the sponsorship. So now we're just going to segue into talking about the National Trust in general. So I want to ask you a question. Sure. What was the first National Trust property that you've been to? Jonathan i would think probably starhead starhead yeah Jonathan so starheads in wiltshire um has one of the most beautiful landscape gardens Jonathan in all of britain and it's beautiful year round it is we've done the gardens year round Jonathan and they're worth it if you're a fan of the 2005 pride and prejudice the scene towards the middle the movie in the rain in the temple that's that was filmed at starhead with elizabeth and mr darcy yes where he proclaims his love for her but also how much he hates her Jonathan and everything about her oh boy so letters to jonathan at anglotopia.net so yeah starhead is Jonathan yeah that's a great place i think that that's i don't think that's the first one i've been to Jonathan What was your first? Jonathan I think my first was Chartwell, which was Winston Churchill's home. Jonathan You've been more than once? Jonathan Yeah. Jonathan Oh. Jonathan Remember when I went over for William's wedding? Jonathan Oh, okay. Jonathan I left London and took the train down. Jonathan It was all a new baby blur. We had a six-week-old baby at home that didn't sleep. Jonathan Are you telling me you didn't read the trip diaries? Wow. anyway take it to piss anyway so yeah chartwell was probably my first national trust property i i've been there since too um i love chartwell it's a great place i've never been there well we should remedy that yeah so but we've been to a lot of national trust properties Jonathan one of the i think one of our most favorite things to do as we have visited you know the length and breadth of England or as we're or the United Kingdom I should say as we're working our way through we'll have a lull in an afternoon and we'll be like driving down the motorway and go like oh hey I wonder if there's any national trust around which basically is code for let's see something really amazing and have tea and cake and a reliably good lunch and and like just to clarify like i'm not a big tea and cake eater like a cup tea every once in a while is really nice and but like and cake like whose birthday is it but if i'm at a national trust property Jonathan well your cake i'm i'm scones with clotted cream and jam yeah uh i i laid lay in bed at night and dream about national trust brownies yeah so good you made them once i did following the national Jonathan trust recipe and they were so good they it was the most unique recipe i've ever seen i'll have Jonathan to see if i can find you should totally make them right now when we're done i should see if i can Jonathan find the recipe like they're made in a saucepan like i've never made brownies like they're made with melted butter in a saucepan like i've never done a brownie recipe like that and i'm like It's one of those where I write a little bit about, I think in one of the magazines coming up, where I write about a British American kitchen and trying to follow a British recipe in an American kitchen and how it's not super easy to do. And the technique is different. And in this case, the technique was very different than a traditional homemade brownie. And I kept just telling myself, like, go with it. Just see what happens. and like the smell of them baking was just like i think you hovered outside of the oven Jonathan like when are those done they were divine so so what what is the national trust um it's a difficult thing to define because it's many things um it was founded in 1895 by a priest, a social reformer, and a lawyer. This sounds like a pub joke. Jonathan Yeah. Jonathan A priest, a social reformer, and a lawyer walk into a pub. And there was a great concern at the time that actually, we have a huge article on our website on the actual history of the trust, which I'll link to in the show notes, which will give you more details. But the idea of the National Trust actually came from America, had roots in American protection of the American landscape. Jonathan Which we don't do a very good job, in my opinion. I mean, we do sometimes, but I think there's a lot of lessons to be learned. Jonathan But there was a huge concern in the late Victorian era that Britain's landscape and its built heritage was in danger and being destroyed. And surely, as the early 20th century progressed, it was terrible for the stately home as they became too expensive. Many were torn down or they burned down. And so there wasn't an organization to protect that heritage. And I believe Beatrix Potter played a big role in this as well in protecting the farms in the Lake District, which if you see the movie Miss Potter, they talk about this towards the end of the movie, where there was a huge problem with outsiders coming in and buying up the farms in the Lake District, and then those traditional farms were disappearing. So that was unacceptable to Beatrix Potter. So she actually bought a lot of the farms and kept them as hill farms in Cumbria. And she's like a saint in the Lake District. When you visit the Lake District, they don't care about her stories and her books. They care about what she did for the farming and the landscape in the Lake District. She's a big figure there. And a lot of those farms and properties that she bought were integral to the beginning of the National Trust. And so it took a few years to get started. And then in the early 20th century, they got the backing of the British Parliament, which said that there's a National Trust Act, which basically gave the National Trust the force of law. And once the National Trust takes control of a property and takes ownership, it can never be sold, divested, developed. It's protected forever. And their motto is actually forever for everyone, which I think is one of the most beautiful mottos that an organization like that could have. Because that's really what they stand for, that Britain's built heritage is for everybody. And while some may quibble on the details of how they actually do that, like, oh, the emission fees are so high and stuff. But, you know, what they the work they do is important. And they've become known for stately homes. They they have over 200 historic properties and stately homes under their ownership and control. And so they've kind of become the standard bearer of protecting Britain's stately home heritage. And they, I mean, there's 4.24 million members. I believe it's one of the biggest charitable organizations in Britain. And it's a fantastic organization. And they don't just own houses, though. Their remit is the landscape of Britain. So there are, they own thousands of acres of the British countryside and the coastline. And it's their job to protect it. and they take it very seriously. I was really surprised when we were in Shaftesbury to see that, like, Melbury Hill, the hill that I like to climb, and it's the hill in the background of all the pictures of Gold Hill. It's owned by the National Trust. They even own entire villages. Actually, the National Trust is a landlord. They rent houses and cottages out to people, and you can rent cottages through the National Trust. so it's it's a great organization and it's probably one of my favorite things to do is to is to incorporate a national trust property in our into our into our trips and we've been to many lovely ones and that's a good segue into talking about our favorites so what are your favorite national trust properties that we've been to oh i think like my most favorite is probably Jonathan stourhead because we consider shaftsbury our second home it's so it's like our local national trust property yeah um we've been there several times during different times a year we've done the gardens different times a year which is really incredible you never think to do um to do you know walk through a garden in the winter but it's beautiful Britain stays green so I mean there aren't necessarily leaves all over the trees and stuff like that but it's still it's it's gorgeous and it's a beautiful capability brown garden and what I think is really neat is like we've been um when uh during the during the year when um they have a panto going on in the house for Christmas so it's like a really unique christmas play that's kind of silly and wasn't that no we we saw panto once at stourhead i am certain of it and i remember like it was my first like i'm like what is this like what we had william with us and mabel and we went like right before christmas and it was like i thought it was so bizarre but anyway that's beside the point what i really love though is that um on a separate trip we were given kind of a behind the scenes look at stourhead so we kind of got to go into the rooms that the general public don't normally get to go into we got to see some of the servants quarters um way up above way way up above um the Jonathan very top floors of the house and the old wine cellar and go in the basement and yeah yeah that I've written an article about that which is in the Anglotopia magazine Jonathan but what I found amazing about that experience is that I think Sourhead as a house where you're able to tour is really large it's beautiful and large and wonderful but then like you get to see all the stuff behind the scenes and like you can understand how one of these houses just the house itself not the land around it was its own economy I mean because the amount of staff that you would have to employ to keep a house like that is just not necessarily even to take care of the people in the house just Jonathan to take care of the house like unbelievable yeah that's i second that starhead is the house there are more beautiful stately homes greater stately homes than the starhead house but way to throw some shade there babe on the inside it's lovely and but the real star i think at Starrhead is at the gardens and the landscape. I mean, the house isn't even open most of the year, so people go to see the gardens, not the house. Jonathan I don't know. We've seen some amazing national Jonathan trusts. One of our new favorites, Kingston Lacey. Jonathan Oh, yes. Oh, love Kingston Lacey. They have leather wallpaper in one of the rooms. It is the most bizarre thing I've ever seen. It makes me think of that David Tennant Doctor Who episode with the piece of skin that keeps saying moisturize which is so gross I'm sorry I know that's gross but yeah but that's what I keep thinking of like every time we walk we walk through there but confession we've not done the gardens at Milton Keynes Jonathan Keats and Lacey Jonathan oh my gosh I always mix that up it's a dyslexic in me for some reason those are Jonathan yeah I think when we were there in the summer we were too busy to do the gardens and then when we were there in the winter it was too cold Jonathan it's really cold i actually really cold breezy day admittedly since we'd already been there we actually primarily went for the tea and cake it was yummy it was that's we were nearby i think that's one of my all-time most favorite memories so when you go to a national trust property a lot of times you'll find the National Trust Cafe it will be like out in the stables or or kind of like not in a garden shed but it's usually not in the house it's somewhere on the grounds and I remember you and I went and we were over for business and I think it was maybe the first time or second time we ever went without the kids and it had been a long time since we were able to you know to venture route without them and they were at home here in the states and we were having terrible weather and we just decided to be very british about it and we were just going to get on with our day um despite the rainy drizzly cold and we so we we go to the national trust we go down to to kingston lacy thank you my brain cannot i don't understand drink more tea yeah um anyway so we go down there and we're like okay let's do lunch first because it's like it's getting late and we go down there and we ordered oh cheese yes cheese and onion jam sandwich from national trust oh my god that's like a box with a stick underneath that's how you catch a jackie you put a cheese and onion sandwich as they call it but it's really onion jam and shredded cheddar cheese and a cup of tea and some crisps and you put that under there and then i'm gonna crawl under there That's how you catch a Jackie. Anyway, my point is that it was so busy that day. And we had our tray of lunch and dessert. And there was nowhere to sit inside. And so we sat outside on a wooden picnic table. A really nice wooden picnic table. Under a big umbrella. And we were freezing. And you could see the steam coming up from the tea. But it is by far one of my most favorite British memories. Sorry, that was a really long-winded answer. Jonathan What were some more of your favorite places that we've been to? Jonathan I really liked Addingham Park. That's one that we just stumbled upon. Jonathan Yeah, we were in the Midlands. Jonathan We were in the Midlands. Jonathan And we were there for something specific, but it didn't take very long. Jonathan We went to a knit shop. Oh, and then there was an abbey ruin in the same town. Jonathan Oh, yeah. It was Muchwind Lock. We were near Muchwind Lock, and it was still like midday. And we were like, well, we had done all the things on our itinerary. So we're like, well, what else are we going to do? And so we just pulled up the National Trust app, which you should get. Jonathan Download the National Trust. It's free. Download it. Yes, download it. Jonathan It's great. Its directions will direct you to the right place. And it'll show you wherever you are, what National Trust properties are nearby. Jonathan What's open. Jonathan What's open, what time and everything. And it showed Addie Ninh Park was open nearby. So it was like 10 miles away. So we're like, okay, that's what, an hour in British miles? Jonathan Yeah, but like we didn't, I don't know. I didn't expect anything like. Jonathan I had no contact. We had no contacts. Jonathan Yes. Jonathan We didn't know that it was a huge grand country house. Jonathan It was amazing. And the... Jonathan The park and there were blue bells in bloom. It was... Jonathan It was... I can't remember. There was a movie where they shot a scene in the parlor slash art room. And it's got that red velvet... Not velvet. Red satin wallpaper, remember? It's like a lawn gallery. Jackie Are you thinking of Petworth? Jonathan Mm-mm. No. Jackie The Turner movie? Jonathan maybe but it's it was shot at anikam park anyway it was it was really beautiful and it was and that's i think that's one of the adventures of national trust is that you really can stumble on something amazing and grand and yeah and and if you when you visit these properties they all kind Jonathan of you know what to expect at least at the bigger ones like there'll be a car park there that'll be away from the house that you'll have to walk to so it's not in the landscape and it's not in the pictures. And then there will be an area where all the Jonathan surfaces are. They're usually in the Jonathan stable block. There'll be a cafe and bathrooms. Jonathan Usually a bookshop. A secondhand bookshop. Jonathan And the National Trust gift shop. And oftentimes there will be a gardening center as well because a lot of the houses will sell Jonathan the plants that they grow on site and you can buy them and take them home. Which, if we lived in England, Jonathan like i would go nuts there's no way we could bring them home no no i think um i think customs would have something to say about me bringing in a live plant they would put us in jail yeah what are some Jonathan of your favorites i keep talking about mine why don't you talk about yours oh okay hardwood call Jonathan too oh that was on my list so just talk about that one then that was when we just visited um in September. It was a... Jonathan It was pouring. Jonathan Yeah, it was our midway stop-off point between the Cotswolds and Yorkshire. It's one of those places that I've really wanted to visit. And I'm so glad we did because it's an incredible building. Jonathan Well, and we've seen documentaries about it and stuff like that. Jonathan We had a lot of context for it. So we knew what to expect. But even knowing what to expect to see those glass windows on that building... Jonathan carvings and ceilings i mean it was just like and then when you get to the long gallery like Jonathan even on a gloomy rainy dark day yeah it was an amazing architectural space best is my gal man best of hardwick yeah she's who built hardwick hall she was a formidable woman like she married Jonathan up in a time when women didn't marry up she married up four times i know that's like i'm telling you there's nothing basic about best like she she was she rivaled the queen she even built Jonathan herself a throne three actually built a throne room with she put you know uh uh uh is it eh in the building i think so is it she she like had her own coat of arms and was like she had power their rival elizabeth and i don't think they liked each other very much i would imagine not um but you know she Jonathan a little fiefdom up there oh yeah in the midlands oh what's the one that we went to that um that was kind of left in a uh arrested state of decay that is my favorite national trust property really yeah uh it's cock abbey that another rainy yeah well it's it's crazy like when you go Jonathan the people who owned Caulk Abbey they were textbook decline of the aristocracy family and they were reclusive and a lot of people didn't even know that there was a grand house on this estate and it was because it sounds like a weird thing to say but when you drive down the three mile long driveway to get into the property like you understand why it was so why they seemed so reclusive it's secluded like you wouldn't know it was there Jonathan like can you imagine just i have this really funny thought of the post box all the way at the end and you're like bye hon i'm going to check the post and like you start off on foot like that would be that would be like an all-morning affair to go walk down to the end of the driveway to to do the post obviously that doesn't happen but yeah so but cock abbey is unique in that Jonathan when National Trust takes on a house and usually the houses are donated to the National Trust by the families in lieu of death taxes and usually they'll negotiate a deal where actually the family can usually still stay and live in an apartment in the house or on the estate somewhere but they get everything in the National Trust and they don't have to pay death taxes on the estate but when Cock Abbey was given to the trust the house was not in good condition It had been in decline for many years. The family had been reclusive. And the rooms were just filled with the detrius of a rich family with more money than cents. Jonathan Furniture and prams and games and dollhouses. Jonathan And so many taxidermies. Oh, my God. Jonathan Yeah. Jonathan So many taxidermies. And so the trust, though, when they took possession of the house and they looked at it, and normally their policy is to restore and conserve and to make it as it was, like in its heyday. But they thought that, okay, we've got over 200 properties now. We've got plenty of grand country houses that are conserved in their grand heyday. Why don't we do something different with this one? and why don't we use this as an example of aristocratic decline in the early 20th century so why don't we so they decided to leave it and arrested decay so they've left it as the family Jonathan left it yeah it looks like they just turned the key handed over the national trust and left and then the national trust just basically said show us your royal memberships come on in Jonathan like it is bizarre and it's it's bizarre you feel like you're walking through Jonathan uh like almost like a hoarder house like like the scavenger in me like i like want to like roll up my arms or sleeves and be like what cool stuff is in here like yeah but it's jarring though isn't it because you go through these beautiful national trust homes and they're pristine they're normally orderly and clean like a beautiful thistle sitting on a chair which means don't sit everything is but this is like there's like a stack of chairs with the seat like out of the middle like just in the middle of the room like you're like okay like this must be the discarded chair room Jonathan yeah and and so you know they don't clean it like they do the other properties but they but they i think they do but they they do it so that it still appears in arrested decay and you would have to wouldn't you i mean yeah because it's it's just going to disappear one day yeah and so it's been and they got the house in the 80s and it's been like that since and like i just i you didn't like Jonathan it because you thought you i thought it was before you well i thought it was a beautiful home and i thought that um like there were like i could understand like leaving the belongings in a state of arrested decay but like there were structural things it looked like with peeling off the walls damp serious issues with damp like i don't know that's mold for american i don't know you stop that process like i don't know if there's a way to arrest that process so to speak or pause it so to me it almost feels like eventually the place is going to fall down because it's although the national trust is trying to care for it i don't know i i don't know enough about the process but Jonathan like i said they want to keep it in arrested decay they don't want it to decay any further but they also don't right they also don't want to they don't want it to be pristine but at the same Jonathan time my it's kind of sad my argument is how how like it's one thing to leave the contents in a kind of a quirky funny way but at the same time like how do you stop that kind of decay well and but and it's probably completely possible and they have specialists and like i said it's not Jonathan my area of expertise yeah i'm i i kind of agree with you but i disagree with you like i love it i think that what they're showing there the story they're telling of oh the decline of aristocracy is is marvelous i agree with you and i like that it's kind of voyeuristic to go through the house Jonathan and that's a great word to describe yeah it's like you kind of feel like you're sneaking through Jonathan somebody's house and you don't belong there and you know the rooms are dimly lit and it didn't helped that the day we were there was it was raining and it was dark but yeah um you know Jonathan the corridors are dark and like there's no rugs there's no rugs like like i wouldn't i wouldn't Jonathan take our kids through there well just because for one i wouldn't trust them not to touch anything and two just because it was so dark and scary i mean if we're a kid it would be yeah although there were a lot of kids there yeah there were a lot of families walking through a lot of annoying Jonathan families walking through can we earmark that thought though and just kind of maybe not to like steer you way off your script can we talk about etiquette in a national trust property yeah why don't we do that when we get to the tips section okay because i got some things to say about this Jonathan so but yeah so cock abbey it's just such an amazing place and the the and when you go into the cafe which is in the stables um there's a uh there's a there's a placard that says this is a secret hidden place and i just i think that's really cool because it does feel like that when you're visiting there and Jonathan highly recommend visiting call gabby um it's it's definitely a super unique experience yeah so what's the one we did in london too remember it was um it's right on the edge of the park oh that's that's english heritage oh sorry never mind strike that from we're not talking about Jonathan english heritage the other heritage organization not today we'll save that for different podcasts um english heritage is a government thing it's different it's kind of like national it's like the national trust but the government owns the houses instead and um they have a similar remit but they do things a little differently they work together the national trust like hardwick hall hardwick hall is national trust and the old hardwick hall the ruin which is across the street across the street is english heritage so they're very you know and how cool is best though from Jonathan hardwick hall like she built her new house the one we toured and then left her old one in the garden basically her front garden as a lawn ornament like how awesome is she like she's my spirit animal so so hey we talked about not to be insensitive to to those who who really have spirit animal Jonathan so we talked about starhead we talked about kingston lacy we talked about hardwick hall Cock Abbey, Eddingham Park One of my really liked that we visited on our drive was Fountains Abbey Jonathan Which one was that? Jonathan That was the ruined abbey right after Rookshire Jonathan Yes! That was insane Jonathan That was probably the coolest abbey ruin that we've been to so far Jonathan Although there was a really neat one in Wales too Jonathan Tintern Abbey, yeah that's up there That's on National Trust though Jonathan but yeah um you take me to all these old great things and i'm you know i just look at it like this is really cool i don't necessarily pay attention to the name on the door which would Jonathan be relevant for this conversation well it's run by the i don't know how to pronounce it because it's in welsh but it's the welsh equivalent of mingus heritage okay anyway so yeah fountains abbey was incredible um it's definitely a much more complete abbey ruin than ten turn or similar places so uh like the tower is still there and then there was the the cloisters that long yeah it's just a it's a amazing place and i've i've never met a abbey ruin i didn't like Jonathan i like abbey ruins a lot i want to share something here though that is super cool about being a royal oak member and they did not ask me to share this story so this is so as royal oak members when you go into a national trust property you just show your royal oak card and you get entry you get it's not free because you technically have a membership but it's like free entry and which is great oops sorry the dog knocked the camera um so somehow i misplaced my royal oak card and we knew that we had national prop national trust properties on the schedule and i said to john i'm like no big deal we'll just we'll just pay for me like it goes towards a good cause and then excuse me we went to go to the abbey and i remember the emissions fee it was like 20 pounds or something it was it was one of the more expensive places it was like oh my gosh and john had sent an email to royal oak like earlier that day earlier that morning email after a visit there no because oh that's right sent it after um but like i literally had my royal oak like a copy of my royal oak card on my phone within six hours i mean they were super fast yeah they wouldn't let Jonathan you in on my card yeah so you had to pay for you to get in which is fine it goes towards a good cause like yeah it's fine and then yeah they sent us yeah and he sent us a replacement card right Jonathan away yep which was amazing so keep that in mind if you end up like me in england and you've forgotten your royal oak card you can always reach out and they will they're more than happy to help you and their service is prompt and that's amazing there's a private information on this this is my royal card you can see it's well loved as you can see it's it's battle battle hardened and you just Jonathan show that at when you go and they scan it and let you in um when we first started going with our card like a decade ago um there was lots of confusion as to what this even was a lot of Places weren't familiar with it. Jonathan They'd have to read the back of it. Or call somebody. Jonathan Call somebody and look it up. But they've gotten the memo now. Now, we've not had any issues using it in the last five years. Jonathan As long as it's present with you. As long as you have it. Which is fair. Jonathan I would say my second favorite National Trust property is Chartwell, which is Winston Churchill's home, which is in Kent. that I mentioned earlier. Chartwell was a very important place for Churchill. It was like his vision of English countryside and Italy, and it has views of the Wheel of Kent, and it was his daily inspiration. And the house is pretty much as he left it when he died, and they've kept it that way. the sorry I'm trying to I forgot my thought process there Jonathan but it's a beautiful Jonathan place beautiful landscape that he shaped himself and if you look at the paintings he painted of it it looks like it was when he painted it his artist studio was there where there's dozens of his paintings hanging up and you can see his easel there as if he was going to walk right back in and paint it's easy to get to from London they I've had they don't do guided tours of it you have to it's like a self guided tour through the house but I had a guided tour last year when I was there for the Oxford thing I got a behind the scenes tour and I actually got to see his bedroom, his private bedroom which is usually closed off to the public so that was a special treat the perks of being in the press. But it's just such a beautiful place. And it's not a, when you compare it to other stately homes, it's not a grand country house. It's a very modest country house. Jonathan But it drained Churchill's finances to the end of his days Jonathan just because he wanted things a certain way. And after World War II, his finances weren't in great shape. and he was going to be forced to sell it. And his rich friends and benefactors thought this was unacceptable so that the hero of World War II would have to lose his beloved country house. So they all banded together to buy the house from him so they could have the cash flow. And then the consortium that bought it donated it to the National Trust on the proviso that the family could live there until, I believe, Clementine died. So in the 70s. So then after that, they opened it up to the public. And it's very much his private, personal home. I highly recommend visiting. It's a lovely place. So I think we've talked enough about specific properties. There are hundreds. We will spend our lifetime going to the mall. You're like, oh, great. Jonathan It's a lot of tea and cake, which means now you have to walk the garden because it's a lot of tea and cake. Jonathan So, but now I thought we would go through some tips and tricks for making the most of your visit. And there's an article on the site that I'll link to that where we've talked about some of these before. But why don't we lead with you talking about the etiquette part? Because that's your bugbear. Jonathan Okay. Okay, so. I guess let me preface this by saying that. Did you get the sugary bit at the bottom? Jonathan No, it's cold. Oh. This mug did not keep my tea cold or hot. Okay. Jonathan um so let me start by saying that although these homes are in the hands of the national trust and they're cared for lovingly um i always try and approach approach national trust property as this was somebody's home like you're walking through somebody's home so it's not a museum well it has that aspect where it feels like it is but people lived here like the building you're walking through was somebody's dream or the dream of a couple generations to like to to make the house what it is so that being said like there are a couple of things that i see um other tourists primarily other americans and and not to pick on my own but like if somebody would just say Jonathan Jackie at Angletopia.net. Jonathan Fair enough. I will take those letters. So, like, if it's muddy outside or it's, like, really, really wet, more often than not, there's, like, a spot to wipe your feet before you go in the door. Wipe your feet. Jonathan And often they'll give you a cover for your umbrella or you have to check it. Jonathan Yeah, you'll, right, because you don't want a drippy umbrella going through the house. It's fine. Sometimes we even went to one house where they gave us booties, remember? Like booties, like these little plastic. Jonathan It was Kingston Lacey, actually. I think it was. Jonathan Like these little booties that went over our shoes so that we didn't track through the house. Even though we had, you know, done our best to keep our shoes clean before we came in. It just, the British mud, sometimes it can't be helped. But some other things to keep in mind. Some of the National Trust properties, the way that the tours were set up through the house, it can be narrow going through. And granted, everybody wants to stop and everybody wants to look in the room, but just be mindful that there are other people, especially as somebody who's really short. Like, if there's a wall of people that are like, I don't know, average height, I can't see at all. And I'm fine to wait my turn to see, but just be mindful that everybody wants to see. And I'm not just saying this as a short person, I'm just saying in general. And then I think my biggest, and this is where I primarily speak to my fellow countrymen, one of the things that just makes me crazy when we encounter other Americans at a National Trust property, particularly in a home, is they're so loud. So loud. Funny anecdote, when we went through Hardwick Hall, there was another American couple going through at the time, And they must have been having a row about something. Jackie That was awkward. Jonathan They weren't necessarily fighting. It wasn't an active fight at this point. Jonathan It seemed like it was years of simmering resentment. Jonathan It was passive. But one would storm in one room and the other would storm out. And then I happened to be down in the kitchens, which is my favorite part of a National Trust property. Kitchens or nursery. Those are my two favorite. And so I happened to be in the kitchen and like one of the parties was already in the kitchen and the second party came into the kitchen and like it went off. And I was just like and I hadn't opened my mouth. They didn't know if I was British, if I was European, if I was American. And the American in me to another American wanted to be like, can you guys take it outside? Like seriously? Jonathan Go do it in the car park like a normal American. Jonathan Like, I was appalled and stunned and embarrassed. And the guy ended up storming out of the house. And I'm thinking, yeah, you've just slammed a 300-year-old door. Like, I don't know. It just makes me crazy. Like, remember, you're in somebody's home. Jonathan It's a place of historical significance. Treat it nicely and kindly. Jonathan Exactly. Jonathan There will be places to sit. And as we mentioned earlier, if there's a little thistle in the chair, Jonathan Or a ribbon across. Or a ribbon. Jonathan You can't sit in that chair. Jonathan Just a good, another piece of etiquette, rule of thumb. Always ask before you sit. Jonathan Stay out of the 300-year-old Chippendale chair. Jonathan Yes. Jonathan So, um. Jonathan And, oh, oh, last etiquette thing. Last, I promise. I will get off my soapbox about this. Don't touch anything. Like, just because it might, there might not be a rope around it, does not mean that you are allowed to touch it. Like, I'll speak for myself here. I would never go into a stranger's home and start touching all their stuff because it's super old and super cool. Like, don't touch. Like, I don't understand why people like this common sense stuff just doesn't apply when you get into a National Trust property. It makes me crazy. Anyway. Jonathan Anyway, so some tips for making the most of your visit to a National Trust property. number one join the royal oak foundation if you're an american um i think canadians can join as well you might also have an organization in canada you can join but join the royal oak um you will say you will get free entry you get the parking desk you get the discounts on various national trusty Jonathan things would that be the royal maple i'm kidding i don't know if that's what it is that's light-hearted Jonathan and meant in good spirit i was wrong earlier in quoting the membership prices i apologize royal an individual membership is $80 subtract 15% if your user code you will you will make that money Jonathan yeah three or four properties you're done you've paid for it's people and then if you use our Jonathan discount you save like $18 on the membership so like it's like $60 out of 80 so you know you save a lot of money there um if you you can get a dual family membership which is which is two two members it's 125 and i think that's what we have um again subtract 15 so what and it's 15 and it goes up from there yeah i did my math wrong before didn't i yeah we met remedial math if you listened to the original podcast uh so yeah just don't listen to my math here but you can save 15 Jonathan on 125 well how about we just send them to the royal oaks website it's royal-oak.org and then we'll put obviously put the link in the show notes yeah um but tips do a little research before you Jonathan go family membership is 150 okay that's worth it if you've got kids agreed but they can go there and then um so uh yeah i was just talking about this about the tips Jonathan okay go ahead do a little research before you go um it's a really good idea to bring a coat maybe bring a pair of wellies or rubber rain boots or um or i hate to say it a pair of tennis shoes depending on where you're going um because if the if they have gardens the gardens are always almost always without a doubt worth it yeah you want to be well equipped while when you go that i'm picking Jonathan up on what she said get the app because you need to check the opening closing times because every Jonathan property is different and they adhere to them strictly that and the houses are usually have Jonathan different opening closing times than the rest of the property yeah so like a lot of times like the houses don't open to like 11 or 12 and they're only open for like three or four hours and then Jonathan they close them but the rest of the gardens will be open all day so if it's in the calf and the Jonathan yeah so if it's important you to see the house you need to make sure that the house is going to be open and then a lot of the how they run them each one of them is kind of different too and how they run admission into the house some will work on a timed entry system where you tell them you want to go in the house when you go in and it'll give you a time ticket and a lot of time slot you can go in some you can just wander in and wander out at will some only do guided tours so that's information Jonathan you need to get from the app or from the box office when you're there yeah definitely do you want to do some research yeah because you because you want to make sure you make the most of your Jonathan visit like for example if you're going to visit chartwell that that's a house you can wander around in but it's timed entry so you can only go in here a lot of time and oftentimes they will sell out sell out it's free but they will sell out of of timed entry passes so you only want so many people through the house at a time so you need to book those ahead yes like so so like a huge like a hugely popular property like chartwell or stourhead book that ahead online or in the app so that when you get there you're not disappointed because it would suck to get all the way to chart well yeah it's a lot to get there and then you're not able to go in the house like that the gardens are beautiful and there's a nice calf and a great gift shop but to not go in the house would Jonathan suck i don't think we've ever hit i don't think we've ever run into that situation but i think Jonathan we've also been very lucky yeah well we travel in the bumper season and this is true usually we're Jonathan Yeah, if you go June or July, good luck. Jonathan So that's critical. Like you said, always do the gardens. Most of the properties will have a landscaped garden of some kind and just have a wander around. Jonathan They are gorgeous, and they're meant to be walked. Jonathan Yeah, usually they'll give you a map when you go in that will give you all the walking paths around the property. If you have the ordinance survey map of the area, you can see the walking trails in the greater area. And, you know, a lot of times you can do a several mile walk if you are so inclined. Jonathan The right to roam. Jonathan Yeah, and you can have the right to roam on the footpaths. I like to always get the house guidebook. Jonathan You do. Jonathan Every time I visit a property, it's usually three or four or five pounds in the gift shop. I always get the house guidebook because personally, even if I wasn't going to be writing about these places, I would buy it anyway just to have it, to have research and have it be a reference. Jonathan Well, and because you go through and it's hard to see everything. Jonathan Yeah, and it's hard to see everything and it's difficult to get context unless you're on a guided tour. So the guidebook really is a great distillation of everything you want to know or need to know about the place. And then from my perspective, I use it for research when I do the writing later. Jonathan I've got another one. most national trust properties are really family friendly. Jonathan Yeah. Jonathan So, you know, we joke about not wanting to take our kids to Calk Abbey. And maybe that's the one where we'd have a second guess, just knowing the personalities of our children. But these houses are really meant for the British public and for those who want to see the houses. I will say you cannot bring a stroller or push chair or pram through these houses. Jonathan Yeah, you usually have to park it outside. Jonathan Or they'll let you park it in the foyer if it's raining, but you cannot take it through the house, which makes sense. It was not an elevator. So if you are going to be traveling with small children that can maybe still go in a carrier, I think it was maybe it was Stourhead where I wore one on the front and one on the back. Jonathan No, I wore one. Jonathan Oh, okay, right. six months and two years so they were still we could still wear them but yeah and most of the Jonathan properties they're designed for families to have a day out yes there's always a playground almost always almost always there's an area for the children to play and um one family friendly food there's always family friendly food in the cafe and uh our strategy when we went i think we took turns going in the houses so one of us that's a really good one yeah one would stay with the kids Jonathan as well yes so if your children are um rambunctious and full of wonderment to the point where you're going maybe i don't want to take them through or they're not maybe maybe they're just not old enough to really get what is going on by all means like go find a really sunny pretty spot in the garden Jonathan and let them run around like crazy and then and then switch off and it's great or like um because Jonathan are very family friendly places like um they can go get a nice lolly or an ice cream like it's a nice thing to do and so if your kids are i mean your kids don't have to be super old to go through i think i think it's same like conquer and divide ours are five and seven right now we would walk Jonathan them i think i would take them through now i think i think they would be blown away we would struggle with will i think but i think mabel would love it oh for sure and and a lot of the houses they've set up programs to appeal to children like um when i was at uh kipling's house in kent or west sussex forgive me if i said we're the wrong location um they had little mice little knitted mice positioned all over the house and the children are tasked with finding all the Jonathan little mice jane austen's house had the soldiers had the the little they call it skittles it's it's like it's almost like bowling i think and so these little wooden soldiers and so you had to find all the little wooden soldiers in each room and will was too but he loved it and like i like he got a stamp or a sticker or something at the end but he kept him engaged like so we could keep Jonathan going through the rooms can you imagine taking him down one of those houses all the interesting Jonathan light bulbs oh he would go crazy he would love that for context our son's obsessed with light Jonathan bulbs and electrical things it's um that's his thing so he would just love all the light bulbs Jonathan he would he would and like the wiring a lot of these homes are sold that the wiring isn't in the wall yeah it's just over the wall yeah i mean because what do you do with the stone wall like Jonathan you can't and then oftentimes there'll be a an area for kids with the costumes they can put on the Jonathan costumes and take pictures and that's really fun so it's you know and then there's the paths to go Jonathan for a walk and there's there's plenty for families to do and a lot of families what they'll do is british families is they'll go they'll spend the day there and picnic and picnic and do lunch and do the house do the gardens go for a walk and but but for those who maybe don't want to try the cafe Jonathan or or have dietary restrictions bring your own food you can bring your own food and and i mean i probably wouldn't sit in the cafe and eat it but um i think you could find a nice spot in the garden or or you know a bench just sit and eat it uh another tip um most of the bigger ones usually Jonathan have a bookshop and these are secondhand bookstores run for the benefit of the property all the proceeds go to it and people just donate their books and it's usually like in a shed or in a room or off to the side in the stables. Jonathan It's never in the house. Jonathan It's never in the house. It's kind of out of the way. It's usually on the map they give you. Jonathan Somewhere out in the garden. It's literally a shed out in the garden somewhere. Jonathan And what's amazing about these things is they're honesty bookshops. There's no till or person in there monitoring the store. You just wander in. You find a book you want. It says what the price is. Jonathan Usually it's like two pounds. Jonathan It's like two pounds for a hardcover, one pound for a paperback. And there's a little metal box that you deposit your money in. Like, they just trust that people are going to be honest. I think that's great. Jonathan I do, too. Jonathan Tips. We did the gardens, guidebook, join Oral Oak. Oh, room guides. For houses where there's not a guided tour aspect, there's always a volunteer in each room at a National Trust property. Jonathan Well, maybe not each room, but within the vicinity. Jonathan Their job is to obviously watch everybody, make sure they don't touch anything. But also, they're usually retired people who are happy to talk to anybody about their specific room and everything that's in it. Sometimes the trick is to get them to stop talking. Jonathan Aww. Jonathan But they will be happy to tell you everything you want to know about the room you're in. Jonathan And the knowledge that some of these people, like, it's not, they take their roles very seriously. And so I think that there have been times where I have learned more about a particular room or a piece in a house from the guide than the guidebook. Jonathan And most rooms will have like a printout that has an inventory of everything important in the room. But that's very... Jonathan And it does come in several different languages. Jonathan It's very detached from the space. So it's nice to get that warm person talking, you know. Jonathan Well, it's almost like it kind of goes back to it being a home. That person obviously doesn't live there, but you could imagine them almost being like a staff member of the house. Jonathan What's funny is when I was in the Lake District, I went to Moncaster Castle, which is not National Trust, but it's open to the public, and I was in a room, and it was a library, it was the most beautiful octagonal library, Victorian octagonal library, grand two-story space. Jonathan It makes me think of the Disney version of Beauty and the Beast. Jonathan Yeah. Jonathan Kind of library. Jonathan I had inappropriate thoughts about that library. It was a beautiful library. Jonathan He's kidding, folks. He's completely kidding. Jonathan I'm kidding. There was a man sitting at the desk reading a book. And I'm like, did I just stumble on the Lord of the Manor here reading in his library? I felt a little uncomfortable being in there then. Because I'm like, should I even be in here? Jonathan but it turned out he had a little volunteer placard on oh i was gonna say he had a little Jonathan volunteer placard he was just a volunteer reading in the library and he had no interest in talking to the visitors of the library which is that's that's cool so um those books need to get aired out yeah like with bigger properties you can spend the whole day there easy and i'll be honest like we pack our itinerary reads and have to do things fast fast fast so we try to put several in in a day when we're really pushing you know but when we stay in dorset and and kind of chillax to use a horrible word when we relax we'll just allocate the whole day to doing one and yeah it's nice and that's all the only thing we're gonna do that day and you can easily do that and then some smaller Jonathan properties like you can do in an hour easy you know you can you pull up see the place and you've seen everything place remember with the walk through the woods yeah that was wonderful oh we Jonathan that one yeah well we can talk about it right now well yeah well um the hardy cottage in dorset is is where he grew up and where he wrote a couple of his books before he moved out to his house Jonathan and doorjester it's a beautiful thatch cottage and it's idyllic i mean it is like it's literally Jonathan like it's literally you open a hardy book and like it's and you hold up the hardy book it's Jonathan exactly what you would imagine that would look like i mean but what's really unique about that property is that you literally have this really beautiful trail through the wood and that's new Jonathan actually it is fantastic yeah the national trust built a new visitor center in partnership with the local council council i don't know who and so they took because there weren't visitor facilities there but so they wanted to have that national trust experience but which national just couldn't pay for it so they all did a bunch of people partnered together ironically we pulled up and the visitor center was closing was closing but the house was still open for another hour yeah so Jonathan they were like um and it's a little bit of a walk so yeah for those for those of you with mobility Jonathan issues i am sure that there is another way around yeah there's another parking area for people with Jonathan yeah because you could not you could not do do the wood and that and it was funny because they like is this walk ever gonna end you're like they were like you better keep a nice pace like if you want time to go through the house and so like here we are hoofing it through through this beautiful wood which it's on us we didn't i think we didn't even plan to do it i think it was one of those Jonathan like we added on at the end of the day like oh hey it's right there why don't we go do this the weather was beautiful all the weather was gorgeous it was gorgeous all right yeah we made Jonathan it we made it in time um both like out of breath like feeling all gross and we had it to ourselves yeah that was amazing because it was just about the clothes and but it's a small cottage like Jonathan yeah there's not much to see i could well you just walk through and then you're done and then Jonathan take pictures of the garden in the cottage like granted we went in a bumper time yeah we were probably the last entry so yeah you know but that keeping that in mind can you imagine like going in July yeah trying to get into this teeny tiny little cottage it's not that that's probably a Jonathan situation where they have a time to train system where they limit who can go in so and then the Jonathan wood walk makes sense because it slows the flow of traffic yeah they think about these things don't Jonathan they so yeah so I think that's it for tips um I'll link to the article we have in our archive has more detail on that. Maybe I'll add a few now that we've talked about it. And I think that's a good moment to wrap up. Jonathan So thank you to Royal Oak for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. Jonathan In case you missed it at the beginning. Jonathan And can I just say thank you to Royal Oak for partnering with National Trust for all the good work you do. I know that you had hit on it earlier, too, about Royal Oak doing a lecture series here in the U.S. Jonathan Let's talk about that. Jonathan The lecture series, you know that when the Royal Oak brings a lecturer to review a book or a subject, you know you're getting the very best of the very best in Britishness Jonathan and experts in the field. Jonathan We have sat through so many fantastic lectures. We met Lucy Worsley. Jonathan at one. Jonathan When her last book Jonathan or maybe last couple? Several books ago. Jonathan It was delightful in person, by the way. Yeah, that was something I was supposed to mention so thank you for bringing that up. They've just released their spring lecture schedule. We're going to have an article on the site later in the week about that. But they've got lectures scheduled for Atlanta, Boston, Charleston, Chicago, L.A. New York, Philadelphia, La Jolla, California, San Francisco, and Winter Third. I don't know where that is. Jonathan In Delaware. Jonathan Delaware. Okay. Yeah. So to give you an example, the two Chicago lectures are Adrian Tenniswood, who's a famous British historian and author. He has a new book out called Behind the Throne of Domestic History of the Royal Household. Jonathan We're going to that. Jonathan Yeah. I have the book. It's a wonderful book. And he's a renowned historian. So that's something we're definitely going to go to. That's in April. It's April 16th. So if you're in Chicago, come see this. Jonathan It's a beautiful Newberry Library, that one, isn't it? Jonathan Yeah. Jonathan Which is a Chicago institution in itself. They just renovated it. Jonathan It's really nice now. Jonathan It's beautiful. Jonathan I hope they have a new exhibition on about the exhibition they had down on the south side in Hyde Park. Jonathan Oh, the World's Fair? Jonathan The World's Fair, yeah. They have a huge exhibition on the World's Fair now. All kinds of historical documents. It's really cool. Jonathan Oh, I want to go. Jonathan So anyway, and then the other one is a sense of harmony in gardens in the arts and crafts movement with Judith Tankard, another garden historian and author. That's at the Chicago Architecture Center. Jonathan Which is also another really great spot to hear a lecture. Yeah, that's May 8th. Jonathan So they're usually in April and May. They've got David Canadine, who's an eminent British historian. He's coming to New York to talk about Winston Churchill's paintings. So they're doing a lot of great lectures this year. Jonathan Maybe we'll go to that one. Jonathan In New York? Jonathan Yeah, maybe. I mean, we're not that far. We're Chicago. I mean, that's under an hour flight. Jonathan It's two hours. I looked. Jonathan Oh, okay. Jonathan Ah, busted! We have a travel moratorium in 2019. Maybe we can use our miles and go for free, right? Jonathan There you go. Now you're thinking. Jonathan So, yeah. So we've worked with Royal Oak for several years now, and their sponsorship of Angletopia has been a key part of our success in the last year. So we're grateful to be working with them. So thank you, Royal Oak. And thank you for sponsoring this episode of the podcast. And with that, we will leave it. And we hope you've enjoyed this look at the National Trust, and we'll see you next week. Jonathan You can go warm up that tea now. Jonathan yeah right I have to make a new cup it's starting to flag so Jonathan thank you have a great night