This transcript was generated automatically from the episode audio, so expect the odd misheard word. Click any timestamp to play from that moment; times marked ≈ are estimated to within a minute or so.
Welcome to the Anglotopia Podcast, where we explore British travel history and culture, and I'm your host, Jonathan Thomas. In October 2013, a young Dane named Thor Pedersen set off from his home with a single, slightly mad rule. He wanted to visit every country on earth, all of them, in one continuous journey, and to do it without ever once setting foot on an airplane. No flying, so that meant container ships, trains, buses, and a great deal of waiting around.
He thought it might take three or four years. It took almost ten. He crossed closed borders and war zones, ran out of money more than once, was stranded for two years by the global pandemic, and served the whole time as a Goodwill ambassador for the Red Cross. And in 2023, he became the first person in history to do it. His book about the journey, The Impossible Journey, is an international bestseller. Now, this being the Anglotopia podcast, I'm especially keen to talk about one particular stop on his enormous itinerary, Britain.
Which, as it happens, came very early in his decade on the road. But I'm just as interested in the deeper stuff because Thor tells this story in an unusual way. He doesn't sell it as a triumph. He's honest about the loneliness, the setbacks, the moments that nearly broke him, and about the thing that actually got him around the world, which turned out to be not to be toughness at all, but the kindness of strangers. His book about the journey, The Impossible Journey, is now a bestseller, and he joins us today to tell us all about it. Thor, welcome to the Anglotopia Podcast.
So Thor, let's start with the obvious question. Every country in the world with no flying, where does an idea like that come from and what was going on in your life in twenty thirteen that made you say yes to doing something so enormous?
Yeah, it it kind of came out of the blue. I was twelve years into a career within transportation, freight forwarding, shipping, logistics. eight the last eight of those years I've been working in different countries. I was sent around a lot. So I worked a couple of years in Libya, a year in Bangladesh, in the Arctic Circle, a bit in the US and all over. And I had been in business on my own.
For a a few years in 2013, I had the idea that instead of a company taking a share of the money off the work that I was doing, I could take it all. so I I I gave that a go and it was going well until 20 and twelve actually. there there wasn't much to do, and I ended up taking a project, that's the one in the Arctic, where I was working mad hours.
And I came back from that in early 2013 and was sitting around and I was a bit unsure about what was going to happen, if the market would change. And around that time, my father sent me an email. So he's sent me many emails over the years. And this one had a link, and I followed the link and I was reading about some of the most traveled people in the world. And I was fascinated. I had no idea at the time that you could go to every country in the world. I was 34 years old. I'd been to about 50 countries.
It's you know the odd holiday and some of it work and whatnot. But every country in the world that just seemed completely out of reach. But several people had done it, about 200 people at the time, and I was fascinated by it. And I dug deeper and I found out no one had accomplished it completely without flying. And I think for most people that would be a uh-huh kind of moment, and then people would move on, but but it just struck me like
lightning and it's it felt so significant that I truly cannot relate to it today, but I just remembered it it felt so significant in that moment. I felt like I'd stumbled across something like a s a big secret and I I had the opportunity to go out and do this and claim world history becoming the first to reach every country in the world completely without flying. somewhat naive
as I look at it today, but that's how it began.
So did you have any real idea what you were signing up for? You thought it would take a few years, it took almost ten. When did it dawn on you that this is gonna be far, far harder and far longer than you'd imagined when you set out to do it?
not f far longer, but far harder, two years in. two years after leaving home, I was coming close to a hundred countries. so I was more or less halfway countrywise. And I was in Central Africa and I was deep in over my head. the bureaucracy,
The lack of understanding of how things worked, to some extent not truly understanding the cultures that I was moving through. I lost financial backing at at that time. My long-distance relationship, which I had been in since leaving home, was falling apart. I was recovering from cerebral malaria. my life was at risk several times. And
I just kind of lost the overall energy, the the motivation to continue it. It felt like I was I was out there working really, really hard for nothing. That there was no interest, that no one really cared if I succeeded or not. I certainly did not anymore. so yeah at that point I knew it was quite a lot harder than what what I thought it would ever be. But but even at that point
when I set out I thought, okay, maximum four years. at that point I might have guessed it would have been five years or five and a half years before coming home. I never imagined that it would be ten years. And I mean coming to six years, I probably thought it was a seven year project. But yeah, it it unfolded differently.
So then I'm sure we'll talk about some of those awful experiences f further on in the conversation, but I wanna I wanna dive back to the no flying rule specifically. What did traveling only over land and by sea give you? What do you see and feel at the speed that the rest of us hopping between airports completely miss? And did you ever come close to breaking the no flying rule?
I came very close to breaking the no flying rule several times. But I I was very aware that if I did break that rule, then it all became pointless. and then I might have that that flight might as well be going back home. So that's you know, I was going back and forth on should I quit all of this and go home or not? but yeah, what what did I gain from it? I mean
something very obvious to me is how big this planet is, how big the world is. Th there's a common phrase where people say it's a small world. it really isn't. If if it was a small world, I think I would have been back home a lot sooner. it's it's a huge world and there's a lot in it. I come from Denmark. Denmark is a relatively small country with only six million people.
last year I was in Texas, a state in the US, and Texas alone is 16 times larger than Denmark, which kind of again puts things in in perspective for me. when you look at the world map and you look at Greenland, the the world map has been skewered a little bit, but Greenland, which is a massive piece of land. It's a huge, huge island, the biggest island in the world. is slightly smaller than Algeria or
Democratic Republic of Congo, which again puts things in in perspective. It is a huge, huge planet. So if you if you book a flight from London to New York, you'll be in New York in what six hours, something like that, right? Six or seven hours. If you are traveling from London to New York without flying, how many months is that going to take you? it certainly took me a long time. So
That is is one thing that it gave me. something really nice which I gained from not flying is to see exactly where countries they meet. So you in in my experience you you kind of have to travel quite a fair distance across a a border before anything really changes, anything of real significance.
around most border areas, people wear the same clothes. you you get the same food on either side of the border, the the plants and the animals in the area do not care which side of the border they're on. There's often a common language, even, and temperatures and everything is more or less the same. So you travel inland for a bit and you might start to see some some real change, but not around the borders. So that's really interesting to me. And also to be seated in a bus or a train.
And you're going through desert and you basically don't see anything, and then you start to see a few bushes, and then that turns into some trees, and then that turns into a forest, and you see a little bit of of rocks appear, and then suddenly that starts r rising, and and you have mountains, and it's suddenly it's lush and green and mountainous. you just see how the the the the landscape changes gradually. You go through
countryside and small villages and more and more houses until you end up in a big city. that's that's a fascinating part of the journey.
So I'm curious, before we get into the into the weeds of this, which definition of a country did you use to define your list of countries you were gonna visit?
Yeah, it's it's a good question. So the basics would be United Nations. The United Nations recognizes one hundred and ninety-three sovereign nations, and then there are two observatory states, which would be the Vatican and Palestine. So the United Nations would give you a hundred and ninety-five, and that's generally what is recognized. So when I go out and say I visited two hundred and three countries, if I'm talking to a serious newspaper, they will put
you know, one hundred and ninety-three plus territories or whatnot. Now, if if you are ambitious enough to sit at home and say, I'm not coming back home until I've been to every country in the world. So everything is in one go. And if something goes wrong and you have to come back home, you have to start from the beginning again. I mean in in my optics you would the the the wise thing to do is be inclusive.
Because once you finish that loop, you do not want to come back home and then have people saying, What about Kosovo or what about Taiwan and so on? So so I I built a little bit on on top of that list. I split the Danish kingdom, which is Denmark Faroe Islands and Greenland. And that gave me two additional countries within my project. I did the same for the UK and went to Wales and Northern Ireland and Scotland as well.
which gave me three additional countries within my project. But I did not split the Dutch kingdom, which doesn't make sense since I split the Danish and the English. So it's it's so we can go with 193 and I'm on safe ground. I I won't have to argue too much about my list.
And I don't think any new countries were created while you did your journey were there.
Now you did all this as a Red Cross Goodwill ambassador, visiting aid workers in the countries that you visited. How did that humanitarian purpose change the journey and change what you were paying attention to? And did it sort of give the journey a an impetus that maybe it wouldn't normally have?
Yeah, I I I think it did. And it was a really good question as well. So one thing that I didn't do from the very beginning when I set out, because it was a very selfish project when I when I set out, but within weeks I realized that this wasn't a country project, that this was a people project. And I started focusing on people and I started promoting each country in a positive light.
I mean the the the general idea was that every country I reached was the best country in the world and it it was my assignment to prove that and and write about that and share information about that. Now the Red Cross element gave me some additional information. The Red Cross for the most part deals with the negative aspects of our world. This is in in in really hardcore scenarios it's armed conflict.
it it could be disasters, earthquakes, or drought, or flooding, a number of things. But many times it's impoverished people, the the people who are in most need across the planet that the Red Cross works with. So I was able to very quickly get to understand a country. I would
go from one country to the next, I would see what I saw, meet some people, take some photos and this kind of stuff. And then I would meet with the Red Cross. And then they would tell me how much funding they got from government and how much funding they needed to to to build up on their own. They would tell me exactly what kind of work they were doing within the country. They would explain to me if they were a strong or a weak national society, strong meaning that they have the funds
To take care of everything on their list, basically, and maybe even go to foreign countries and provide aid there in an auxiliary role. Or if they're a weak national society and every time something happens, they need to ask for help from other countries. So a relatively quick meeting with the Red Cross would give me an incredible insight.
into a country, what is functioning, what is not functioning, what is the what does the economy look like, what kind of government does the country have? And also in a project where I wasn't always feeling happy or positive. Sometimes I was struggling with different elements throughout. I I I would feel somewhat artificial.
smiling on social media and promoting the good food, culture, history, someone I just met who was helping me or something like this, while something was bugging me. And and being a Goodwill ambassador of the Red Cross and meeting with the Red Cross gave me an opportunity also to share on social media some things that were not necessarily positive. So I think that added somewhat of a balance
within my travels, that it wasn't just happy go lucky, the sun is shining, but also, you know, there are there are elements of our planet that we can improve.
now selfishly, I want to talk about Britain, which came surprisingly early in your journey for you at the start near the start in twenty thirteen. In fact, I gather your partner Lee came out to see you in Scotland just a couple of weeks after you'd left Denmark. So take us back there and what was Britain like on the very first legs of your journey?
Well it was very, very early. I I left Denmark on the tenth of October 2013. And then eventually I got to France, which was country number six, and I I I needed to cross to Dover. and and before I crossed, I was in Calais.
And in Calais I saw what looked like some home maybe homeless people and not quite. There was it was almost a a village of of tents and and they built small bonfires and this was close to the rail tracks and some of it was on the rail tracks. And I walked over and I spoke to those people and turned out they were refugees that have traveled from far, far away, some of them from Syria, and they were hoping to to cross to the UK.
And and I had a small conversation with them. And then with with my privilege and all, I walked over to the ferry terminal and and I could make my way across. Now they they weren't willing to to take me as a foot passenger, so I had to go and knock on windows until there was this vehicle, a four-wheel drive, with a guy who called himself Rambling Rat, who had been driving all over the place.
he said no problem and I hopped into his four-wheel drive and we drove on board the ferry and then soon after I was in the UK and then trains got me around very, very easily. I went to London, I think first. No, actually I think I went straight to Bristol because I was making time and I needed to get to Wales.
So in Bristol I met with the Red Cross. I was awestruck with Bristol. It was it felt like an open air museum of I mean the great history, seafaring history of of Bristol. Lots of old cranes and old warehouses had been restored and and sat at the waterfront and there were signs so you could go and and read the history and and why it had been left behind. It was a really, really nice city.
Met with the Red Cross, they're doing good work in in Bristol. And then soon after I traveled to Wales, where I was being hosted by a local guy who lived in a house where the grass had grown up to the windows. And I remember there was a toilet lying on its side in the in the front yard and and amongst other things and so on. But he was a really nice guy, and they took good care of me and made some delicious food and we went for a walk and one minute it was raining and the next
The sun was shining and the wind was blowing and it was just constantly changing. But yeah, a very short visit. I did minimum 24 hours in each country. So in the beginning it was very close to the 24 hours, 26 hours, 27 hours, and then I was on. And then I went to well, from Wales I went to Ireland, and then from Ireland I went to Northern Ireland.
Where I met with a guy who at at the ICRC, which is the International Committee of the Red Cross, who felt like the James Bond of the Red Cross, you know, he he was an interesting fellow. And he gave me the layout of of of the city and and said that this is a city of walls. They control people, there are walls everywhere that can open and close gates and so on so and so. You won't see it as a civilian, but once you once you know you will see it everywhere.
Okay,
okay. But the people were really, really nice. And I have this tendency where my my accent just kind of goes in the direction of whoever I'm talking to. So I I went into the tourist office and and and and asked for a little bit of advice where I could find Wi-Fi. I wasn't traveling with a sim card at the time, so I needed Wi-Fi everywhere. And they asked me how the weather was, and I found myself saying, it's raining a wee bit.
Which which isn't pure I Irish but but but close enough. but and yeah, then from Ireland I got on a ferry and and went to the west coast of Scotland and travelled across this beautiful, beautiful piece of land. You know, I I mean I've seen movies and pictures, but seeing it with my own eyes, it is very beautiful countryside up in Scotland. Ireland as well, Northern Ireland, a l I mean a lot of it, but
I was really awestruck by by Scotland. I came to Glasgow and then from Glasgow, didn't spend much time in Glasgow. Glasgow continued to Edinburgh, where my then girlfriend, now wife, came to visit me only two weeks after leaving home. But she she happened to have time off, so it just worked out like that. and we had a great time in Edinburgh, which is a fantastic city to go and visit. And then she left.
And then I was going back to France so I could get to Spain and Portugal. So I made a stop in London and my girlfriend said, you know, I I'm going to leave you if you don't go and see a show. And that's why I I went and saw Lim Le Miserable and and I had a fantastic experience because I was trying to get tickets as cheap as possible.
And I found somewhere where they were far cheaper. And being very naive, I went like, this this is a good deal. And and I went and I bought those tickets. And then there was something shady about it. as not long after that, I found out that those weren't official tickets and I was supposed to buy an official place and I probably wouldn't be able to see the show. So after talking to a guy about that, he said, You're never going to see your money again. I was like, I don't know.
So I walked back and I found the guy who sold me the tickets and I said, you know, I need the official tickets. Can I have my money back? And he took the tickets back and gave me my money back. And then I went back to the other guy at the official window and he said he's never heard about that before. So well, who knows? yeah, I was very lucky. I don't know. But
I had a had a good time, saw the show, which was fantastic, and then I continued out again. Then I I went through another 30 countries almost. And my plan was that I sort of like circled around in in Western and Central Europe and came up through the Nordic countries and found myself in Norway. And my original plan had been to join a ship from Norway to Iceland, but I was late.
And the the the final ship had left and during the wintertime they closed down because the ocean is too rough. So the solution I found was to board a ship from Norway to Immingham and I came back to to the UK. Now in Immingham on that small voyage I got seasick and and and that didn't bode w well for going across the North Atlantic in the winter time. So
in Imingham, I I I ran forward as as fast as I could to a pharmacy and said I need something for motion sickness. And they were just, you know, rolling down these gates, closing the the store and I kind of crawled under and were like, I just need I need this, I need this. I'm getting on a boat in a second. And say we're closed and said, I know what I need to get and just quickly so and so.
And I say, well, we can't do that. And and then, you know, I played my card. Listen, I'm going to every country in the world in an unbroken journey without flying. You know, I have years to go. I really, really need this. And then the ladies there decided to follow me on what was Twitter back then and allowed me to get my motion sickness pills. So and then I left the store. And then on my way going north, I was I had to head up to Scrabster.
Which is a small fisherman's port in in Scotland. And on my way I got an email where they said the the the ship which could take me to the Faroe Islands, not to Iceland, but Faroe Islands, and then I would need to Island hop, was not coming to Scrabster before New Year. It w it would come in the New Year. It's going to the Shetland Islands instead. And I was devastated. you know, this meant more delay.
And I made it up to Edinburgh, and then it just so happened it this is a couple of months later now. And my wife just happened to have time off around Christmas, so she came back to see me in Edinburgh again. And and the Edinburgh is still great, but I mean two times within two months, the we we felt like we have we had seen the sights, so and it was now colder and darker. And then I went up to Inverness.
For on my way and spent hog money. I think they call it hog money.
and I was hanging out at a bar. I didn't I and I didn't know any anyone. and I was talking to the bartender who was a woman, and she said, she was just bringing people back to her place, people who didn't have anything to do. So ended up having a fantastic night and having a good time.
Actually I I think that was my Christmas and then New Year's Eve was something else, but I I get confused. And then eventually I got up to Scrabster and joined the ship with my motion sickness pills and then I was off. So that was my UK visit.
Sounds like quite a journey already, and you haven't even you haven't even gotten out of Western Europe. so you you've you've written a sharp little observation that in places like Denmark and Britain it's relatively easy to read what someone really thinks of you, even though the politeness whereas e even through the politeness, whereas elsewhere hospitality hides everything. S can you say more about the British version of that and what what did you make of how Brits communicate with this strange traveler?
traveling around the world by without airplanes.
Yeah, I'd I'd I would have to say I I think we're quite polite and friendly where we come from, both Denmark and and across the UK. but if if there was a competition within hospitality globally, like the Olympics, we would be on the bench watching t the other countries. I mean we we we are kind and we're helpful and we're friendly, but we have no idea how friendly we could be.
Or how accommodating we could be. you go to certain countries and they get offended, or at least they play, they play it that way that they are offended if you do not go back to their home and and stay in their guest room and and eat their food and and they can take absolutely care of you. In Sudan, I I met this guy, Dafala, and after I met him, I did I couldn't pay for anything. It was it was ridiculous.
So for several days I was at his home and his mother was cooking and his siblings were taking care of me and we would go out and have a good time and he would help me with the paperwork, going to a consulate or an embassy, and and there would be a long, long line, and it would be obvious it would take a long time before you would get to the small window where you could make your request. But then me being a foreigner and he and he being my host, he would just explain to everyone in this long queue.
That I was a guest, and then everyone would accept, yeah, sure, sure, bring him up in front. So I would go up in front, and then I do not speak Arabic, certainly not enough to to take care of such matters. And he would just speak on my behalf and all the paperwork would just be issued, and it was fantastic. A few days in with with Dafala, I really felt like I should be paying for something. And and we were at a cafe and we were smoking shisha and drinking tea.
And I made an excuse that I was going to the bathroom, but really what I wanted to do was go and and pay for all of us. And on my way there, they they already knew what I was up to and they shouted in Arabic to the guy at the cashier, say, Don't let him pay, we will take care of it. They wouldn't accept my money at all. So th it's fantastic hospitality. I I I have a story from Poland where I meet a woman in the middle of of of the night in front of her house.
And I'm just asking for directions. And I end up staying at her place and she's cooking for me at at midnight and gives me a place to stay. And the next morning, a towel and a shower and breakfast and coffee. And she starts the engine in her small car and drives me to a bus terminal and points at the bus that will take me onwards where I'm going. In Hong Kong, I was supposed to I was supposed to be four days in Hong Kong, but I reached Hong Kong just as the
pandemic began and a family was bound to host me for four days and ended up hosting me for five months which
which was just you know there's just hospitality around in India and in Pakistan perhaps also Bangladesh but certainly India and Pakistan they have a saying you may know it I cannot remember how how it how it goes but it translates into the guest is God and it it doesn't mean
That they believe that the guest is God in any way. But it does mean that you should be respecting your guest as prominently as you would if if you had a god come and and visit your home. So the guest is doing nothing. everything is taken care of. You cannot help with the carrying dishes out, or you could you do not get up for anything. They take so good care of you, even to a degree that, as a obvious foreigner,
which which I am in in Pakistan or in India. you you could go to a store and they might not accept money from you. if if you want a a pair of shoes or if you want an ice cream, they'll go like, no no, it's a present. Welcome, welcome, welcome. to the point where of of of hiding what what what you feel, I think the Arabs are
Among the best in the world. I I I had a bit of a head start because I did work two years in in Libya, but you are unlikely to ever know what an Arab truly feels about you. if if you're stepping on their toes, so to speak, and and and misbehaving culturally in all sorts of ways, they will still treat you with the utmost kindness and politeness, and you will never ever know.
which which is so interesting to me because i do think we're quite blunt in my country in in denmark you you're you're will quite you'll relatively quickly find out if someone is enjoying your company and and what they think of you or not and and i don't think we're that different there's just a little bit of water between denmark and and the uk i think the language within the uk is
far more polite than what the language is in in Denmark. but even with polite words, sometimes you can sense this person is is not keen on me.
I've I've had many cultural experiences that have been eye opening like that where you're like, I think you're just being nice to me and I and I'm not I'm not realizing that that that what's actually happening here 'cause it's yeah, 'cause in in America we're we're very friendly and very welcoming and very hospitable too. and we mask our contempt in other ways. So
changes a great deal across the US, the US being such a large country. within the US it's it's well known that in the South there's Southern hospitality, which is its own thing. so yeah.
there then there's Midwestern hospitality, which can't be beat. 'Cause I'm in the Midwest. So Well,
let's let's let's talk about your visit to the US because I'm I'm kinda I'm really intri that's sorry I don't think this was on the list of questions, I'm sorry, but I I I'm really interested in the experiences you had here. first of all though, how did you get to the US?
So eventually I got on a ship from Iceland after going to Greenland as well and returning to Iceland across the Atlantic Ocean to Canada. And I did s a significant distance in Canada, which when you look at the map is next to nothing because that is truly a very, very, very large country, which the US is as well, of course.
From Toronto I got on a bus to Buffalo and I was so proud that I had made this intercontinental crossing which which I you know, I I it had to take place on ships in in my case. And it felt like a big deal that I had made it to North America without flying. And I thought that would make a bigger splash.
But but people really didn't care much. And and
now I I was doing immigration in the US and I was so proud. And this immigration officer who looked like Colin Farrell to such a degree that I thought it was one of these actor things where they do a a real job for a month, sort of to get into the routines and so. But he was not friendly at all. Not not even the slightest bit.
So he said, Where are you from? And I was from Denmark. And so you're coming from Canada. I'm traveling every country in the world without flying. And so and I had this little card and I pushed it across to him and he pushed it back. And so he just wasn't interested. And he says, Denmark, Denmark, I don't think we have a form in what's your language. Is it Danish? No, I don't think. but it's close to Germany, right? So you speak German. Here's a German form, and he gave me a German form. And I do speak German, but it was quite offensive.
So I filled it out in in in German and and pushed it back. And I got nothing from Colin Farrell. But it it cost me, I think, eight dollars or something to that degree. It's the cheapest I've ever traveled into the US. I had my ESTA approval prior to that as well. So I came into the US. I was very happy to be there. And then another bus brought me to New York City. And I arrived maybe at
3 a.m., 4 a.m. in the morning. And I was walking through the city with my big backpack and my beard and my hat and going like I I made it to New York without flying. I l I left home months ago, but now I'm in New York and I did that without flying. And I'm walking down the street and and New York is slowly waking up and you see shopkeepers opening and this and that and and waste disposal and and these things.
And I'm walking and walking and I and I arrive at this big park and it's Central Park and and the gates are open and I go like, you know, it's really early in the morning, like nothing I can't do anything yet. So I walk into the park and I find a tree and I decide to sleep under that tree. So I'm just sitting there under the tree and I fall asleep. And I wake up and you know everything is alive and people are in the parks and everything's is bustling and
And a bird had made its droppings on my hat. So and then I go to a bird bath and I shave the edges of my beard at the birdbath. And there's free Wi-Fi in Central Park. So now I had a free Wi-Fi as well. And the toilets had opened up so I could go and do my my business there. So I was like, this is this was a pretty good option in the US so far. I meet with some friends in New Jersey.
I make my trip over there, stay with them for a few days. And then I go down with the what was that? A bus again to Washington, DC, where I meet with the Red Cross and and see all of these museums that are around the lawn and the access was free and it was mind boggling. It was it was it was really, really interesting visit. But also a lot of homeless people in Washington DC, which I which I don't see a lot.
in anywhere and it's not in movies, it's not in sitcoms, it's not in it looks like this shining you know crown jewel in in most cases but there a lot of homeless people in washington DC and then from there I got on a train and to Chicago. I was
I was on my way to San Francisco and then from there I would go through LA and get to Mexico.
But as I'm waiting for the train, people are queuing up and this guy is standing behind me and we just start talking, you know, just like, hey, how are you? and Yeah, where are you from and where are you going? This kind of stuff. And a little bit of chit chat, and then we get access to the train and we walk inside the train, and as it turns out, we're seated next to each other. So okay. So his name was Arthur Art. And
Art
and I were talking and there's really good energy between the two of us and so we're talking all the way to Chicago. And then once we get to Chicago, we have I have four hours before my next train is leaving. And as it turns out, he was on the same train. So this is a a train which is known as the California Cephar.
And it's a lot of tourists both domestically but also internationally come to make that train ride. It goes across the Rocky Mountains, it goes across the something river. Is that the Mississippi River? Color Colorado
River, yeah, Mississippi. it's it's a very scenic trip and it was supposed to take three days. And I was on a twenty dollars per day budget. So the ticket already cost
It was way out of my budget. And I bought the cheapest seat you can imagine on that train. And then I went and bought a lot of chocolate bars and some water. And I figured I was gonna make it three days I could survive on this train. and then Art he decides to go for a run. no, what does he do? He goes to see his grandfather's grave. his grandfather for some reason is buried in Chicago.
And I offer to look out for his luggage while he's gone because now we're friendly with each other. So I'm keeping his luggage and he comes back after a while and I give him his luggage and he has a different ticket. So I say, I might see you on the train. And then when I go to get on the train, they look at my ticket and then they say, You're in the first class lounge. And I figure that's a mistake, but I'm not gonna say anything. I might as well go to the first class lounge.
So I go there and there's free Wi-Fi and snacks and whatnot, and I'm having a good time. And then when we're ready to embark the train, I go on the train and I want to turn left. And the guy on the train he says, No, you're right. And I go, like, there's something off here. And he takes me to this private cabin on the train and opens the doors, and art is sitting in there. So art he had this cabin fully paid for with two seats, and he was gonna do the trip alone. But because we've become friendly,
he offered one seat to me. And this came with bunk beds. So this would flip
down. So I would now have a bed and it came with meals included. So then at mealtime we go to that wagon or whatever that's called and and and and we sit down and because we know each other a little bit, we're but we're not dating, we sit across from each other. So I'm on one side of the table and he's on the other side, and then the the staff on the train.
quickly come over to us and and moves one of us next to the other, which was very awkward. So now we're seated next to each other and there's no one on the other side of the table. that that felt awkward, right? And then within 30 seconds, they find a couple that they put in front of us. And then we slowly start speaking with that couple, going like, Hi, where are you from? And we don't really know each other, but we know each other a little bit and this kind of stuff.
And this conversation where you go through what's your occupation, where do you come from, develops into solving the world situation,
global politics, and this kind of stuff. And we were looking forward to every mealtime after this. And we would meet people from all across the US, from every state, and a few foreigners and whatnot. So for three, I think it stretched to four days with three meals a day.
That was the best time on on that train. It was s sitting across from strangers, getting to know them before coffee was served afterwards. And then San Francisco. At this point, I had met several people on the train, so we hooked up and were doing things in San Francisco and having a great time together for a few days. And then I went to to Mexico. Then after Central America, South America, and the entire Caribbean, my route back east.
was actually from the US. So from Bahamas I took a ferry, which I didn't know existed, from Bahamas to Florida, and then traveled up the east coast to some port I can't remember the name of anymore. And then I left the US.
like quite an adventure. Wow. I'm tired just just listen listening to you recount it. My God, three days on
a train. Wow.
this this was still the good energy days, you know. My
life had not really been threatened at this point. I hadn't run out of energy yet. I was still optimistic, happy go lucky about many things. It was the the positive era of the trip.
then l let's let's talk about the not so positive era 'cause we gotta we gotta balance it out. So when when did it start to become difficult and challenging in a way that you weren't expecting?
I think there were some signs early on because I was so naive leaving home that it wasn't just doing the logistics and all the bureaucracy of moving through the world in this way. It was also my ambition about promoting the Red Cross as a goodwill ambassador of the Red Cross, promoting every country in a positive light and getting my social media to grow. And leaving home, I thought.
You know, this is going to explode pretty quickly. You know, they're all going to be calling me CNN BBC and and Nike will come and sponsor my clothing and I all this stuff. But it it really didn't happen. And I was living in my own bubble, telling myself that this is amazing, the world just needs to see. And there were a few instances in in in the first year for sure, where that bubble burst.
And and I really had to re-evaluate if it had any value what I was doing. So it it was becoming a little rough in that sense. And it was always a little difficult to keep pace. you know, if if I if I took a day off, that would be one more day before I got back home. So I was very aware about having to push forward and and and make the connections and find the trains and the buses and what I needed. When I got to Central Africa.
That's when I knew I was in over my head. I met this this guy, Terry, who worked with the Red Cross. I met him in Benin, which is still West Africa. And then he knew quite a lot about Central Africa and had friends in Congo and and he said, You this is going to be the hardest part of your journey. And I kind of shrugged my shoulders a little bit, were like, Yeah, I've been through some stuff, I'll be okay. But that that is just a different level.
of of hardship, not just for a naive traveler trying to make his way through that part of the world, but also for the people who are living there for sure. anyone who wants to accomplish anything in Central Africa will be having a really, really hard time. So it's an amazing part of the world. I mean absolutely astonishing. It's beautiful. It's very lush and people are friendly and
funny and there's lots of music and food and dancing and family family life is important and the history and the culture is deeply deeply fascinating so under different circumstances i mean you would have an absolutely amazing time in in and across central africa but trying to go through those countries
getting the paperwork in order to cross both checkpoints and and borders, international borders. that is that's a tall order. even getting in touch with the the Red Cross and and making that promotion was also complex. So yeah that's that's when the the the remaining air was kind of left out of the balloon and and and eventually because everything was
falling apart. I was realizing I was not accomplishing what I wanted with my project and I was losing focus. I I couldn't really remember anymore why it was so important to reach every country in the world without flying. And and certainly I was being confirmed by the world around me that it had virtually no importance. Of everyone was asking why are you doing it? Why are you doing very few people were saying, Yeah, we understand. Just keep going.
You
know, there was a there was a lot of support because of my own passion, but not necessarily because people understood that it was important what I was doing, more so because they wanted to support me in my ways. So yeah, I was struggling a lot, I was losing weight. I started getting migraines, which was I mean, up to that point I've had headaches occasionally, but I didn't truly understand what the difference was between a headache and a migraine.
I I came to learn that in in Central Africa and it was debilitating. it felt like my brain, like someone jammed their fingers into the middle of my brain and was pulling my brain apart. and and there was nothing I could do. I no amount of painkillers or hiding under the covers and going closing. There was nothing I could do, it was just take the pain.
for as long as it lasted. And then, you know, sometimes a day or a day and a half after I would have like this brain fog. So it was quite rough and it was a recurring thing. And and I think it was because I wasn't taking care of myself. I wasn't eating right. I wasn't sleeping right. I was working incredible hours to to to push forward and and find a way forward. yeah so then my my body was reacting to that.
Yeah, so that's that's when when things turned around. That's also when I I ended up at gunpoint a few times. That's when I ended up being in a in a vehicle at at high speed where everyone fell asleep, including the driver. The only one awake was me, and we were going off the road, and you know, I throw myself at the steering wheel and I get us back on the road, and the driver is upset with me for for having my hand on the
Steering wheel, but he quickly realizes what happened and nods and then takes over again and didn't fall asleep again. But everyone else was asleep. No one ever noticed what happened. And that's, mind you, in a part of the world where if you call an ambulance, it might not come. Probably it will not come. If the ambulance does show up, it probably doesn't have oxygen or latex gloves, or and the people inside might not have the necessary training.
And the first stop is probably going to be the gas station where you pay for petrol before you go anywhere else. And then once you get to the hospital, if you get to a hospital or a clinic, you might get an infection and everything might get worse. It's it's it's just that kind of environment. So it was a good thing that taxi didn't flip over at high speed because that would have been carnage.
That's that sounds terrifying, but you you live to s live to tell the tale, as they say.
Well so you know, these these stories do get attention, but but the real story here is that most of the world is such an ordinary place. it is just people getting by in life, making the best of the situations that they have. It's people going to work, going to school, spending time with family, falling al in love, following their sports teams.
watching movies. I traveled through the world during the time of Game of Thrones when these seasons would be released and it was just a universal thing. It didn't matter how small the village was or which country or language or whatever people were talking about it. They wanted to know what was happening with Daenerys Stormborne and what was happening with the Starks and this stuff and and the next episode and what was coming and so on. And
The same for fidget spinners. all of a sudden fidget spinners was a thing and everyone had a fidget spinner and it didn't matter where I went. The most extraordinary occurrence I had with a fidget spinner was in Libya when I saw a young boy, maybe 10 years old, holding a fidget spinner in Libya, which was the shield of Captain America, and he was spinning this. So the shield of Captain America in the hands of a boy in Libya.
That that was an extraordinary sight. But it was just everywhere. And then all of a sudden it was gone. But the world is very much like that. We hop on these trends and for the most part we're doing the same things and we supreme t shirts and s bags and stickers were all over the place for for a year or two while I was traveling. we're very connected across the world.
and then let's let's fast forward then. So then the pandemic hit and you got stranded. You mentioned earlier that you got stranded in Hong Kong. So tell us about that and how you were still unwilling to break your no flying rule. So what did you end up doing and and how did you survive for those two years where you were b essentially trapped?
Right. So I I'll I'll just add a little thing to that, which is that prior to the global pandemic, I was going from country to country in the Pacific Ocean, small island nations. And there was a two-week delay while I was in the Solomon Islands, which didn't sit right with me because I wanted to go home, but okay, there was a solution, and two weeks later the ship would come and pick me up. And then later on I got to the Marshall Islands.
And there was a two week delay again. And then eventually a ship picks me up in the Marshall Islands, and this ship is going to take me to the Federated States of Micronesia, FSM, and then from there they will drop me off in Hong Kong for transit. So I do not need to go to Hong Kong within this project. I've already been to China and Hong Kong and Macau count as as China in my book.
So I was only going for transit, waiting four days in Hong Kong and then getting on a second ship that would take me to Palau. so mind you, I could have arrived one month earlier, and then I would have made my ship four days later to Palau. But given those two delays, I arrived right at the time when this pandemic broke out. And and my four days turned into two years in in Hong Kong.
Now I was down to the last nine countries in this tunnel of countries. And I had been wanting to go home since two years in. I I had this experience in Central Africa, which pretty much broke me. And somehow I find I found my way to get back on my feet and continue through the the the misery which was my my life in at at that in that chapter.
of it all and and and push forward, but I just desperately wanted to go home. I wanted to have it all over and go home. And there were ups and downs and good times and whatnot. But when when I reached Hong Kong, I I would murder someone if they put themselves between me and and me reaching my goal. And now there's a global pandemic and are you kidding me?
So there this family was hosting me for five months and they probably would have continued to host me, but we just agreed that I I needed some personal space. I mean, there was it was a family of four in a house where the parents are working from home and the children are not going to school. It was quite intense. And I had opportunities to go and stay other places in Hong Kong after five months in Hong Kong because all I had been doing for five months was networking and trying to find a way.
out of Hong Kong and to go to the next country or go somewhere else, anywhere else, just progress. so after about well maybe around these four or five months in Hong Kong, CNN caught on to that I was stuck. CNN had covered every possible angle of the pandemic up till then. And now they had a new angle which was crazy guys trying to reach every country without flying. He's stuck in Hong Kong because of the pandemic.
So they covered that story and it was a really good article. and that that kind of went viral and it it boosted my profile. And then for a good while after that, I was doing lots and lots of interviews and then collaborations came along with that. And particularly in Hong Kong, I had the opportunity to work with Hong Kong Tourism Board, which is their tourism ministry, which was really cool. And they nicknamed me Hong Kong's only tourist.
So I was running around doing things that they wanted me to showcase in my blog and on social media. And that that was fantastic. they were really, really helpful. And I there were about 300 Danish guys, Danish people living in Hong Kong. And I probably met all of them during the course of the tweet. So even though my focus was on hanging out with local people wherever I went, because
That's what I was trying to represent. And that gives me a better picture of where I am in the world. It just gradually shifted to me hanging out with Danish people after a while in Hong Kong. There's this sort of ghetto thing. but yeah, after about a year in Hong Kong, Hong Kong immigration, which up till then had been very easy going and very accommodating, saying, Yeah, sure, sure, we're all in the same boat. We will extend your visitor visa.
about a year in Hong Kong immigration started saying there must be airplanes to Denmark. And I I couldn't disagree. I was there there are I'm sure there are airplanes to Denmark, but big beautiful project. And Hong Kong immigration said we don't care about big ho we don't care about big beautiful project. We we care about immigration. you cannot stay here forever. You need to go or change your immigration status.
And we talked about that for a bit, what I could do. And they said, Well, you can marry someone in Hong Kong. Well that
yeah. another solution was to study. So sign up at a university and you know that was doable and I get a student visa. there was no requirement that I finish my education. So that was actually something I thought about. And then lastly they said are you you find work.
And there's a lot of banking in Hong Kong and whatnot, but but actually I ended up working for the Danish Seafarers Mission, the Danish Seafarers Church in in Hong Kong. So it turns out Denmark used to be a seafaring nation in a big way. And back in the day, churches would pop up in in the most important ports around the world. So now, fast forward to today, there are seven of these Danish seafarers churches.
left in in the world and one of them happens to be in Hong Kong. And and there was nobody left. So at the reverend and the assistant had left, gone home because of the pandemic. So I was hired to be the junior assistant to a reverend who wasn't there. And then I started dusting off the entire place and sending emails to ships and asking if they needed anything. Because during the pandemic the I think
Some of the people that had it the worst were seafarers, you know, the ones that had made it on to their ship and and then suddenly they couldn't leave the ship. And and and tragically the suicide rates went up. I heard stories about people going on board a ship and then starting to have a toothache. And that there's no dentist on these ships, but there are tools and there are shipmates.
And they find a way to remove that tooth up there at sea. And then you just kind of live with that. And on two occasions, there were captains that that died while on board, and the families wanted to bury the bodies, so they couldn't drop the bodies in the ocean. So now the ships are sailing around with a dead captain in storage, so it must have been really hard for them. Yeah, and they so they couldn't
They they came alongside in Hong Kong, but they couldn't leave the ship. But I could move around in Hong Kong and shop and provide for them whatever they needed. So they would send me long lists and then I would go and pick everything up and collect cash from them and and then help them out like that. And I did that for a good long while in Hong Kong. And then one day there was a message that I could get on board a ship and I could leave towards Palau. And then I did that.
Wow. What a that's so fascinating that the there's these seven missions still in the world and you happen to work for one and then you were at the like basically the right place at the right time to to help your fellow Danish seafarers, which after traveling
Yeah, I I actually traveled on board 40 container ships, which is a nice round number. 40 container ships. So it's very nice to be able to to give something back. But but also an element here in I said there was some delay on my way getting to Hong Kong. Now, if if I had reached Hong Kong earlier, then the likelihood would have been that I would have been stuck somewhere else. There's no way I wouldn't have been stuck because it was a global pandemic.
So the chances that I would be stuck on a ship or I would be stuck on a tiny island nation in the Pacific were far greater than Hong Kong. So, you know, while Hong I there was a lot of duality about Hong Kong. It was the best and the worst time of my life. But I was lucky that it was Hong Kong and not somewhere else.
and I I and I'm I'm fascinated that you basically plugged into Hong Kong and like I said, you worked with the tourist board and you basically got to experience Hong Kong in a way that probably no one else has ever experienced it simply because of the conditions of you being trapped there. that's
that's it's quite possible. I arrived with my hat and my backpack and when I was at my highest I had two apartments, I had two cars, I had access to the port, I had my driver's license, I had my temporary ID card, I had a dentist, I had you know, I had a life in Hong Kong.
one place in the world that I that I miss the most. whenever people say and they say, Well, surely you don't want to go back to Hong Kong, but that's that's a place I know so well and I have I have true friends in Hong Kong. You know, going around the world you meet people for a few days or a few weeks. In Hong Kong I was socializing with the same people for years.
Well let's let's fast forward then to the end of the journey. Wh what was the last country you visited and how did you get there? And what did you do to celebrate your the end?
So the penultimate country was Sri Lanka, and from Sri Lanka I joined a ship to the Maldives, which was then the final country. And I have a friend, someone that I met while I was in Oman, who works in hospitality in in hotel businesses and at resorts. So we stayed in touch and she even came to Hong Kong while I was in Hong Kong and and worked there for a bit, which was
was good fun. So I met her in the project and we met up several times. And then she had connections in the Maldives. So she organized a resort island where that invited me to come and and celebrate. There were some issues with me leaving the ship there with the the last three countries that I reached there were various bureaucratical obstacles and for the Maldives where you would expect that they would roll out the the the red carpet
they they wouldn't allow me to leave the ship because it was a commercial vessel and it it wasn't like a private vessel, a sailboat or anything like that. So I was a passenger on board and in their legislation I couldn't leave the ship. so we had to take care of that. And then finally I came to the Maldives, which is a fascinating country. and and they there were people there with flags and friends.
Had flown to the Maldives and a good a good friend, Gunnar Garforce, which was the first person to go to every country two times. He he was working for a newspaper and he was there and he published the first article that I had made it and reached every country. And and then my then wife, we married a few times within the project, and then once when I got back home. So we're married three times now.
She she came to the Maldives and we all went to this island and and and had a a good time, I would like to say. So I think everyone had a good time, maybe not me so much, because I was under enormous pressure, a lot of stress in in the latter years of of this project, and there was a lot of thinking, should I
throw the towel should I in or should I go home and and then this kind of stuff and and looking for solutions and looking for this. So I was severely damaged at at the point when I I I reached the the final country. And then when I did reach the final country, I quickly got a lot of attention. So everything had to be right now. I couldn't push interviews a month into the future. I had to do them as as they came to me.
So I was working quite hard while I was in the Maldives, while everyone was out scuba diving and drinking martinis and having having a good time. but it was lovely to see everyone and it was nice to know that you know at at that point it was it was done. No no more countries. And I was I was worried about my my mental state.
if I was to go to the airport and fly back to Denmark and then the transition that I would suddenly be back in Denmark if I would be able to cope or if that would if that would do something to me. So I decided for that reason and for a few other reasons to make my way over land and sea, which added an additional two months to the the project. So in in some ways I'd like to say that the project was completed.
When how how do we go? the the project was successful when I reached the Maldives, but it was completed when I came back home. And the the last ship was a ship from Malaysia called Milan Mersk. And that was 31 days, 31 or 33 days on board this ship from Malaysia to a port in Denmark called Aarhus.
And and that was good because I could count down the the days until I would be back home. They're very precise, it's like a bus schedule. So if they say it's gonna be 32 days, it's likely to be 32 days or thereabouts. And it it helped me prepare mentally to now now I was on my way home and I would soon be home. And it was quite nice when we came up through the English Channel.
And I saw windmills. you see, you don't see that a lot in the world. There's a little bit around China, but other than that, if you see wind turbines, they're on land, but we have them offshore in in our part of the world. So you see that in the English Channel, and you see that in the North Sea as well. So that was nice when we started to see that, and the temperatures dropped and the humidity changed and all of this. It started to feel more like home, like this very slow return home. And
There's there's this strange element to the last country and the penultimate country. I felt no joy at all reaching those. Everything had become so automated and mechanic. so I was worried about I was truly worried about myself and my mental state. But when I reached home, there was lots of joy. And it was a fantastic homecoming and lots of people had shown up at the port side and
And it started raining of course because it's Denmark, but yeah. And my wife was there and we went out and had some nice food and and then that was that. That was about three years ago now.
the the begs the question, do you still have any desires to go on any big adventures or are you are your big adventure days done?
No, so no I'm I I've been what's it called? Abducted, abducted, abducted. I've entered the Adventurers Club in Denmark, which is sort of like the Explorers Club. The Explorers Club in New York actually was what modeled the adventurous club in Denmark. But now I sit around this wooden round table and tell crazy tales from the world.
and and share experience with these guys. And I have to say it it it just opens up for ideas and possibilities of of what I still want to do or and gives me new ideas about what I might want to do. So I have something coming up in February and and it's a secret expedition. So I can't really share much about it. But I can give you a couple of Q words. I can say Africa. I can say camels.
And I can say volcano. It's going to be good. It's going to be really good. but most of my travels these days are commercial. So I'm invited to a few film festivals. I'm invited for a lot of speaking engagements, fortunately. That's where I make my main living today. some book events. I was like I was that that was this year, I think. that I went to a book festival.
In Dubai, which was fantastic, and this was sponsored by Emirates. So they organized my flight, and this was the first time in my life that I flew business class. And business class on Emirates is is quite good, I'd have to say. And then shortly after that, I came to the UK for an event in the UK, and because I was on my own budget, it was Ryanair, and the difference from Emirates.
So well, Thor, this has been genuinely inspiring and not in ways I expected. You've turned a story that could have been one about one man's toughness into a story about everybody else's kindness. And I think that's gonna stay with us. So thank you so much for joining us on the Anglotopia podcast. The book is called The Impossible Journey out now in the UK and worldwide, and we'll put links to it in the show notes, to Thor's talks and to his social media accounts so you can give him a follow and see about his upcoming adventures.
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, like, or comment, and tell us the one country you'd want to reach overland over on YouTube, Instagram, or Facebook. And if you love the Anglotopia podcast, please consider joining the Friends of Anglotopia Club, where you can get early access to new episodes and connect with other Britain enthusiasts. Join us next time as we continue exploring the people, places, and stories that makes Britain's history and culture so endlessly fascinating to discover. Thank you, Thor, for being on the podcast.
